Reference: posted by: ruckerr on 5/18/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 18.
To all Kirpal Singh Satsang members,
I have asked gckier to come on as cofounder of this club, and time permitting he has agreed. I've also asked him to post his club philosophy, some of which he and I have already discussed and agreed on.I hope you take the time to read his post, reflect on it and on your own philosophy, and feed back your thoughts on what additional factors would make this club succeed at it's purpose--to learn about the life and teachings of Kirpal Singh and use that knowledge to guide our way back home. Your comments are welcome, and the vision of the club will be open to discussion and improvement always.
I believe there is opportunity in coming together in this club, we jointly create the spaces we live in (this being one), and we should jointly benefit from it.
Finally I would like to note one of the biggest 'problems' with coming together--that of successorship.
On the Beas side, there are many, many initiates who are de facto excluded here (that is, welcome, but probably would not choose to participate). It is an unfortunate thing, but a historical fact I am not equipped to resolve.
Moreover, I am a Sant Ji initiate; this could raise some trust factors with other lineages of Kirpal, since I 'control' the club. I am sensitive to this but expect you will see from Gckier's post how our approach to club control will address this potential 'trust factor'. I'm completely open to handing the club over, anyway, and if it is an issue, it won't remain an issue.
As has been noted in this group of clubs before, the modern issue of successorship is a frequent showstopper with the Kirpal lineage, and that is why it should concern us for the moment, during the formative stage of this club.
Here is why I decided to start Kirpal Singh Satsang. He is the Nexus for Sant Mat; his heritage (going back) provides all of us a common ground; also, there are a large number of living students of His, which is not the case for Sawan (otherwise I think you would be reading this post in the Sawan Singh Satsang club). We should surround ourselves with such people, if possible, and learn from their experiences. His lineages going forward increase geometrically, and so there are potentially many, many brothers and sisters who could benefit from this common heritage and personal experiences while Kirpal initiates are still here to share, and regardless of the paths chosen subsequently.
I think this is consistent with His philosophy; given the power of the internet to bring people together (albeit asynchronisally), it is up to us to take advantage of what is provided.
Reference: posted by: gckier on date: 5/18/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 19
Thank you Stephen.
There are, to my knowledge, about 8 or so people who have acted as initiators and successors after Master Kirpal Singh left this world.This is far from unusual in this lineage. One of the Sikh master had 22 claimants to the gaddi!!!Aside from Darshan (and Rajinder Singh), there is Ajaib Singh, Thakar Singh, Soami Divayanda, Judith Lamb-Lion, and Dr. Harhajan Singh and his wife, and maybe others.
All initiates of these teachers are welcome here, and need make no secret of their affiliation. They might wish to post the URLs for their groups under the links, and should not feel restricted to post announcements about their groups or teachers activities. Let us keep the focus on Master Kirpal, in large part, however.
Out of respect for each other, and for the Beloved Master, no successorship controversies should be brought up, no defamation or debunking would be appropriate. There are clubs for this already. If a new seeker asks about where to go, they may be guided to the links section, where they should find access to all, including the clubs such as Radhasoami Studies, where the critical examinations of various masters takes place.
Satsangis and devotees from other traditions, and from Beas lineage are also welcome here, with the understanding that this is not the same type of endeavor as RS Studies, and other such clubs, and is, in effect a satsang of Master Kirpal Singh.
Beas satsangis should be able to find Master Kirpal as a brother and devotee of Hazur Baba Sawan Singh. I have great respect for them.
I am certain in my heart and mind that this is in keeping with the mission, spirit, and intent of the Beloved Master. It was his unique ablilty to bring together people of various faiths under His wings, and noone seemed to ever feel diminished thereby.
I hope that this club may be a place where members and visitors may know, beyond doubt, that there is an Almighty Power, which is not far off in some heaven, but nearer than our breath itself.
I hope that those of us who knew this Great Saint, will use this a a place to remember Him, and those who are yet to know Him will be blessed by His words, and His devotees' remembrances.
It is not often that such a One is sent, who comes in the Very Form and Power of Nanak and Kabir. Even now the Heart of Kirpal calls to all humanity from the Highest and from the depths of our own selves.
I hope nothing said herein offends anyone. I am certain that each teacher in the line of Kirpal understands and appreciates that the respect we will have for each other here, is a way of showing our respect for Kirpal Singh.
With kind thoughts,
JayOne further note:
In the beginning of the Sar Bachan Soami Ji leaves four people (not including Baba Jaimal Singh) as successors with varying duties.This should establish that it is possible for there to be more than one at a time, without necessarily legitimitizing all.
I plan to post tonite or tommorrow some words from the Beloved Master which will give, as He usually does, a wonderfully simple way in which to approach this. From memory I can recall only this:
"What does it matter if there are five givers, ten givers, or more...it is for the people to decide, I have respect for all"
Reference: posted by: ruckerrr on 5/18/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 21
As such, he has equal and, incidentally, irrevocable authority to manage this club.
That accomplished, I think we may have something here....
Reference: posted by: ruckerr on 5/19/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 35
I posted this over at radhasoami studies:
Hello All,
We're looking in to contacting some of the still-living notable personalities from Kirpal Singh's time and before.1. Of Kirpal initiates, who is still living who might have personal/historical insight into his life and teachings? We'd like to establish contact with those willing to provide insight into his life and teachings?
2. Are there still some living Sawan Initiates? How about Jaimal Initiates or their children?
3. Where's the best place to find such information? Any ideas?
There is already a wealth of published information; but as time passes, such opportunities to capture real experiences or memories also fades....
Reference: posted by: gckier on 6/3/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 244.
Dear One,
When Hazur Baba Sawan Singh left His body, there were several people who gave initiation as successors.There was a line at Beas, as you know, and Our Master, Sant Kirpal Singh founded the Ruhani Satsang at Dehli, and there were others.
When Kirpal Singh left the body, the same thing occurred when Master Darshan Singh and Sant Ajaib Singh (and about a half-dozen others) carried on the seva of Naam initiation. As seen in the beginning of the Sar Bachan, when Soami Ji left four people, exluding Baba Jaimal Singh, to perform varying tasks including initiation (though not all who so claim are necessarily legitimate), the possibility and precedent exist for a Master to leave more than one person to carry on.
This can be, and indeed is, quite confusing for the seeker, especially when the teachings are the same, or very similar.
And we are all a little blind, excuse me if I say it.
Under the links section in the club are the URLs for several of the masters who came after Sant Kirpal Singh, as well as a link to a website conatining many of the writings and talks of Master Kirpal. They might be of some use to you. There are also listings for James Beans e-groups, which you might enjoy.We are attempting to maintain a strong ecumenical spirit in this particular club, which was the hallmark of Master Kirpal Singhs' life and work. He was able to bring together representatives and practioners of many religions and spiritual methods under the tent of devotion to Almighty God. Here we hope to be able to bring together the children of the many families of Hazur Baba Sawan Singh and our Master Kirpal. Only mutual respect will bring that to reality.
When one has tasted sweetness at some spring and another declares their thirst, it is but natural for one to point to the place where one wet their own parched lips. But that water which we seek comes from the Almighty, who is everywhere, He alone is the Master.
So, wherever you end up, in whatever satsang you sit, you are always welcome here.
Reference: posted by: gckier on d6/5/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 284
Stephen and I would like to thank all you dear ones for your participation. The general consensus seems to be (from the feedback I have receieved) that, simply by trying to implement Master Kirpals' suggestions for bringing harmony to human interactions (which this is), by mutual respect and kind words, and by making Him the focus here (which is simpy appropriate), a good thing is happening.
I think some of the real functions and benefits of real satsang are possible here.
No controversy will enter in here.
But I digress...If you are an initiate of Master Kirpal Singh, please feel free (or even make an effort) to share
remembrances of Him, thoughts on how He and the Teaching have impacted your life, favorite quotes, questionings, indeed anything. If you are an initiate of any one of the other Masters, His impact is certainly still a factor in your spiritual life, and your unrestricted thoughts and feelings are certainly welcome.If you are seeker after truth, the same freedom of expression is extended to you. You would be welcome to do this sitting on the veranda at Sawan Ashram in Dehli from the early 1950's to August of 1974, and you are welcome now.
Personally I consider all the initiates of Our Great Master shining jewels and instant friends, and that appplies to anyone on this path of devotion to God, however they have come to it, and whatever form it takes.
I rememeber well the way Master would say:
"Yes, yes, anything to say, any questions?. Do not be afraid to ask anything".
And, more importantly "All are satsangis, no high, and no low".
Reference: posted by: vejeestu on 6/5/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 288.
Well Jay, some basic general agreement does go a long way to support a harmonious environment. Part of that agreement has been the clear intention of those who came here from the get go, to have a club based more closely on the principles of satsang - developed and held by initiates.
I would only add to your general discussion that stories of our experiences with Sant Ji or Darshan or Rajinder are very much connected to our experience of the path and our relationship to Kirpal. I have had some question on this point, but I hope we can be big enough to be comfortable with that.
Reference: posted by: gckie message number 290
Of course.
They are all inseparable.
Reference: posted by: gckier on 6/5/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 292
Neil,
Thank you so much for your thoughts.You know our Master passed from this place almost 27 years ago. That alone was hard to bear.
But there was, I am sorry to even have to mention it, terrible controversies about who was the next master.Some of us went one way, some another. And the family of Kirpal was torn apart over the matter. Now there have been at least eight who have initiated as successors to Kirpal Singh. Some of their initiates are unaware that there are others than their own teacher initiating seekers, some are aware and simply consider all the others frauds. Some of the Kirpal initiates have negative opinions about the others as well. It is the way things are. I am sorry to have to bring it up, but it seems naive not to.
But I mention it in this context, that here we have agreed that we will not enter into such controversies, and will keep our judgements and opinions about others to ourselves, out of respect for each other and Master Kirpal Singh. I am 100% sure that would be His wish for us here. That is entirely different from sharing ones experiences with Sant Ji, Master Darshan, or Sant Rajinder Singh, or anyone else that is connected to our experience of the path and our relationship to Kirpal. There can, and should be, no restriction on that.
And if we are not big enough to embrace each other comfortably with that, then we should know that about ourselves, and have an opportunity to change and grow and make our Master proud.
Regards,
Jay
Reference: posted by: gckier on 6/13/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 345
While we do not wish to delete posts (except in the case of very offensive ones, which we do not expect to have) on the basis of content, and most certainly do not wish to offend anyone or disrespect the form of their devotion, we hope to conduct this according to the spirit and wishes of Master Kirpal Singh. To that end, I will be posting His remarks from a circular letter entitled "How to conduct satsangs" later this evening. [NB: The contents of this document is now on our 'Home Page'.]
I would hope His words would clear any confusion we might have, as this is a site dedicated to Him. We have only to understand and respect His wishes.
with kind thoughts
Jay
Reference: posted by: gckier on 6/13/00 to Kirpal Singh Satsang Club; Message number 347
Well, having said all that I inadvertantly deleted a post from Jorge Lacoste!!!
Being a new founder, such things happen (sorry, couldn't resist the pun)
The post was to the effect that he appreciated the two posts by anubhava 108, and thought such posts should be welcome here. Well, they are. They were nice thoughts.Yet there is a phenonmenon known as "spamming" (named after a food with substance but no nutritional content). People will join club after club merely to promote their own agendas or beliefs, without even a momentary concern for the nature and focus of the club.
And the focus here is Master Kirpal Singh ji.
So, to make this easier for all, Master's own thoughts will be brought out a bit later. And those posts which have constituted the statement of our focus and policy are now duplicated here on the new website, where the dears ones can read them.
It would also be very much appreciated if all members could have an e-mail address. A Yahoo address (or any other web-based one) is totally anonymous. This way any delicate matters can be dealt with privately, so as to keep this site/satsang harmonious and non-controversial, as much as is practical.
With kind thoughts,
Jay
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