Details about the G2a3 (U8*) clade with members
from England and possibly Italy

                       link here to all persons listed here in Y-Search             link here to the lab results in Haplo G Project
                       link here to the Sorenson Y-DNA database                link here to YHRD database
                                 [search for surname using FTDNA values]

Explanation of this clade
Please note that all references to the old terminology for this group have been changed here to
say G2a. Some other locations on the Internet may still use the old term, G2.

Two members of this clade were found in 2006 to be U8+ but negative for the other G SNP mutations
identified by the Garvey et al. project. On network diagrams, this clade is often found linking the
DYS388=13 group (mostly northwestern Europe) to the U13* group and to the Ashkenazi U8* group.

For estimated time relationships between this clade and other G groups, see the separate page with
67-marker samples and time calculations.   The crude time calculation methodology used suggests
the clade here split from the large DYS388=13 group sometime in the millenium before the
Current Era when their ancestor developed the 13 value for DYS388. Then there was another
split between this clade and the Ashkenazi Jewish G2 clade sometime later in that same
millenium. There is no marker to define accurately this split except perhaps the 389b marker
which jumped to 16 among what became the Ashkenazi group.

The diagram above suggests there is a divide in this clade between a northern and southern England
group. While the available samples fall into this pattern, this may be found coincidental with the
availability of more samples. The inclusion of the Italian samples are slightly speculative at this
point. Additional 37 or 67 marker Italian samples are needed.

Of more likely reliability in subdividing this clade are the slowly mutating markers. Since the men
in the clade are relatively recently related within the overall G population, the chances of one of the
slower mutating markers reverting twice to another value within the time period of the existence
of this clade are rather slim. So the following scenario is proposed for subdivisions of this clade:

(1) The oldest mutation of slow markers seems to be the DYS395S1a marker found in Family Tree
DNA's 67-marker panel. This marker has about a 1 in 1000 chance of mutating in any generation.
It is unclear which value was ancestral for this marker, but some members of this clade have values
of 14 and others have 15.
Powers (and probably Banks and Rushton and Pritchett)...and DePetrillo have a value of 15.
Stearns has a value of 14.
The availability of only a few 67-marker samples makes it difficult to comment further or to validate
the preliminary conclusions.

(2) A second mutation at DYS449 possibly occurred within an English group composed of Reynolds,
Kimball and Stearns.  This identification of this subgroup is only valid if the mutation occurred recently.
If so, these men share a common ancestor not shared by the other men in the clade. This DYS449
marker is found on the 37-marker panel from Family Tree DNA, and Banks, Bancks, Raines, Rushton,
Pritchett, Polito, Guinn, Kimbrell, Matthews and DePetrillo share this value of 29. HOWEVER, this
marker has shown much more variation among G persons than among the general population, and this
subgroup may have to be abolished if it does not reliably help distinguish a specific subgroup.

The geographic representation of this clade at present suggests the common ancestor may have lived
somewhere in northeastern Europe or Eurasia with a spread at an unknown period to both Italy
and Englan. Many more samples are needed for an accurate evaluation of this.

Persons probably belonging to this clade    May 2007 update
............confirmed members with 37 markers listed on the graph above are in bold
.....................those with fewer than 37 markers who only seem to belong to the clade are in plain type

who list origins in England

Banks # 4 D59FR in Y-Search.  31595 in G Project.  Confirmed as G2a (P15+) by Ethnoancestry.
                               Y-108 in Garvey SNP project... found also to be U8+ but not U16, U13 or U1.. thus U8*
           This sample & all the other Banks men here are Americans descended from a mid-1600s emigrant
           from the Wigan area of Lancashire. Because of the unusual given names, an earlier ancestor was
            probably in Wigan in the mid-1500s. This family was heavily into pewter manufacture in 1500s
            and 1600s, with possible connection to the earlier Roman metal-working facilities found in Wigan.
Banks # 1   B9PAU in Y-Search 58515 in G Project.  (see above) Only predicted as G2a.
Banks # 2 ND7D5 in Y-Search. 37419 in G Project. (see above) Only predicted as G2a.
Bancks SXSVF in Y-Search. 85176 in G Project. This man from the all-English branch of the same Banks
            family above.   Only predicted as G2a.
Rushton # 2 CKNT4 in Y-Search. 60767 in Y-Search. This family is traced to the Colne area of Lancashire
            in the 1700s. Only predicted as G.
Rushton # 1 SW2PB in Y-Search. 60769 in G Project.  (see above) Only predicted as G.
Matthews in Sorenson database. Not tested for G. Lists origins in 1600s Worcestershire.
Stearns # 3 5MD2X in Y-Search. 62066 in G Project. Lists origins in s.e. England.
            Only predicted as G2a.
Kimbrel Q57MD in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Lists origins in s.e. England.
             Unclear whether projected or confirmed as G.
Kimball A sample in Sorenson DNA database. The available markers seem to match Kimball # 2
            listed below. Listed origins in s.e. England.
Trammell Apparently not in Y-Search. N20248 in G Project. Only predicted as G2a. Exactly
            matches one of the Bankses, but his 12 markers do not confirm membership in this
            clade. Those same 12 markers' values are found also in a G2b person.
Reynolds # 4 4993S in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether projected
             or confirmed as G.

who list origins in Ireland

Powers  S8542 in Y-Search.   68740 in G Project. Confirmed as G2a. The Powers family of s.e. Ireland
           is confirmed as Norman. All the Powers, except this man, have one of two different DNA profiles --
           neither of which is G.   So a non-paternity event seems the likeliest explanation for the sample here.
           The participant is Canadian. So such a non-paternity event could have occurred there.

who list origins in Poland

Lanzkron  Y8ZS5 in Y-Search. 71985 in G Project. Only predicted as G. He matches the
            12 markers of one of the Bankses exactly, but there are not enough markers to determine if this is
            coincidental or not. This sample also matches men in another G2a-U8* clade. This particular
            Banks does not seem to have the ancestral 12 markers for that family.

who list origins in Hungary

  YHRD # 333 A sample taken in Budapest, Hungary. Not tested for G.
                       This man is quite borderline for inclusion with this clade because of the lack of enough
                       marker values. The markers available exactly match one of the clade members.

who list origins in Italy

Depetrillo  Apparently not in Y-Search. N49264 in G Project. Lab makes no prediction as to G
                       status. Results received too late to include in diagram above, but he clusters
                       closely with Raines and Kimbrell. Several of his 12-marker values differ from the
                       typical values.
Miserandino 6A6D4 in Y-Search. N37388 in G Project. Confirmed by the lab as G (M201+) but
                       unclear if tested further.
Napoli X7Z89 in Y-Search. 63731 in G Project. Confirmed by the lab as G (M201+) but unclear if
                       tested further.
Polito/Ippolito Y2R99 in Y-Search. 94826 in G Project. Lab makes no prediction as to G status.

who list origins in Portugal

  Barracha in Sorenson database. Lists origins in Portugal in mid-1800s. Not tested for G.
                       This man is quite borderline for inclusion with this clade, and if he is a member
                       it could be at the far end of the time period. Barracha's DYS439 marker is 11,
                       a slow marker, with the ancestral value for the clade here of 12.

who have unlisted or unknown origins in the Old World

Pritchett/Weil   GNAB2 in Y-Search.  31503 in G Project. Confirmed as G2a, but negative for G2a1
           and G2a2. He lists only American origins, but an American ancestor was likely a European-American
           who had and African woman as his consort or via another interracial situation. The ancestor could
           be the Bankses or Rushtons above, with the Bankses having the closest geographical contact.
Stearns # 1   This is a sample in the Sorenson DNA database. Has not been tested for G.
Guinn # 2 QFXDK in Y-Search. 71460 in G Project. Only predicted as G. He matches Raines
           36 of 37 markers. His results received too late to include on the diagram above.
Kimball # 2 B6FQB in Y-Search. 46554 in G Project. Only predicted as G2a.
Raines TXPFW in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confirmed or predicted as G.
Raines UUV6W in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confimed or predicted as G.
Rainey # 2 BJCUH in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confirmed or predicted G.