Seggev Weiss Aug 19 1993, 3:06 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess Followup-To: rec.games.chess From: swe...@netcom.com (Seggev Weiss) - Find messages by this author Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 21:40:46 GMT Local: Thurs, Aug 19 1993 2:40 pm Subject: ICS - Past and Future Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Since I'll become much busier in school very soon with far fewer hours (ones that don't take away sleeping time) for ICS :( I wanted to devote a few minutes to my experience on ICS and suggest a few ways to improve it for the future as it seems to stand these days at a crucial intersection. First, the past : ICS has been a rather positive and entertaining experience for me from the beginning - it all started for me a year and a half ago when a friend wanted to show me some interactive medium of playing chess one late night as an innovation over the dwindling local chess club we've just been to. So I logged on and an unregistered (very few were registered back then! :) player by the name of 'MatingFrenzy' challenges me to a 2-minute game (no Fischer clocks back then either) - not much fun with only ascii boards available, but why not? So after repeatedly enjoying beating the pants off me, he pauses to ask me my rating(s) - I tell him I'm 2100 USCF and 2300's postal and he replies "That's pretty good, you are 2300 postal and I'm GM Anand" - I was about to give him a piece of my mind how if I had a need to listen out to bigmouths like him I'd have stuck around the local chess clubs but out of curoisity, or an unexplicable chess-player-like desire to humilate their opponent, my friend and I decided to ask him some personal details about Anand my friend knew from an interview he gave him for a local paper the previous year, and lo and behold if it wasn't Anand it had to be a fan who memorized his address on the spot AND decimate at 2 0 with obvious lag using half his time :) Of course, GMs are humans too, and the one game where I cheapoed my way into an imminent win, 'MatingFrenzy' shamelessly disconnected, aborting the game - and I was introdu- ced rather early to the world of abuse :). Over time, I've managed to practice and play on ICS with quite a few FMs, IMs, even one GM - in a world where play- ers don't carry around title tags and ratings fluctuate widely and don't make people's livelihood dependednt upon them, it is much more feasible for people of a vast range of abilities to play truly just for fun than it is in the throat-cut tournament cirucit (and it's basically as throat-cut for the B play- ers as it is for the GMs). But MOST IMPORTANTLY, I've made a few good friends on ICS whom I've talked to in the first place out of a basic common interest in chess but with whom I found later much more to interact with, either thru the net or with thoseclose enough, in real life. I even know of roomates who first met on ICS (and now spill they daily tiddlywinks on r.g.c :)) - though don't expect ICS-induced marriages any time soon, as most 'female' players on ICS turn out to be merely attention-starved males (for various reasons :)). The ADMINS on ICS have of course their own human hangups and follies, call it what you will, but basically they share the same addiction and motivation as the rest of us on ICS (after all, they're all on it voulnatrily too :)), and so are managable to get along with and generally have made up for the numerous instances of their jumping the gun on individual users with their steady work in keeping the whole thing alive and running reasonably smoothly. Which brings me to the question of the FUTURE : Since its inception at the beginning of 1992, the site of ICS has changed hands many times - at first every new site had its share of dedicated people who helped add useful programming features to the server, which more than made up when it had to move on when the local powers-to-be of its host machine discovered a god-forbidden game server on their hand and shut off access. Then it finally settled at valkyries.andrew.cmu.edu and everyone seemed happy. Well, it was still subject to inherent Eastern archive site on that machine seemed rather stable. Then one bright spring day, the machine was unplugged and hauled off for some demos - and basically never came back. That started a talespin of moving ICS around temporary hosts, first at CMU until thir sys admins got completely tired of us, then on hosts of volunteer players until they were 'discovered' by their sysadmins as well, and finally settled at MIT - a vener- able, stable, secure site one might think - WRONG! Apparaently these MIT machines which have the highest concentration of regular non-local users in the *world* (how many people are on gnu.ai.mit.edu or athena.mit.edu who have little or nothing to do with MIT?) can't handle all of sudden an operation which according to the main code writer himself takes 'negligible' CPU time and about 15 MB data traffic/day, at *previous* loads of players. But of course it is more politically convenient to blame folk playing chess on ICS for local lag than it is to look at all these on gnu.ai.mit.edu doing stuff having absolutely nothing to do with gnu projects. So instead of shutting down the site completely, the local politicos decided to limit the number of simulatenous users to something like 35 during weekday times, a ridiculously small number considering the global popularity of the server, not to mention it contradicts the essence of ICS, i.e. the opportunity to play people from variety of back- grounds ands strengths, or what happens if you connect to leave a message to a friend but he's the guy you just bumped off ? :( During the nighttime, limit is increased to a managable number, but that just discrimnates in favor of Euro- pean and other Non-US users on the *US* server who can still freely login at times more naturally suitable for them. *THEREFORE*, I say - enough with net.admin telling ICS players how, when, what, why to play! If the server is shut down for a whole weekend because its host machine is undergoing some mainetenance, that is *NOT ACCEPTABLE*! What we need is a dedicated IP node for the server, and perhaps several regional such nodes to improve connectivity later on. And like all other good things in life, it doesn't, nor should it come free! The fixed cost of paying connectivity charges for a dediacted node, and even paying a few professionals to look after the hardware and software of the host machine should be accomodated out of entry fees for tournaments which could possibly be USCF-sponsored and let USCF take care of the finanical maintenance of the host, or at the very least even ICS regulars who don't want to partake in such tournamnets could pay a minimal fee for the privilege, yes *privilege* of having that service available to them In short, folks, I'm saying that although personally I won't particiapte on ICS nearly as actively as I used to in the past, we should all pull together to make sure ICS WON'T DIE. Just my $0.02's worth... Tim Philip Aug 20 1993, 10:17 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: phi...@cs.usask.ca (Tim Philip) - Find messages by this author Date: 20 Aug 1993 17:06:47 GMT Local: Fri, Aug 20 1993 10:06 am Subject: Re: ICS - Past and Future Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Seggev Weiss (swe...@netcom.com) wrote: : * THEREFORE*, I say - enough with net.admin telling ICS players how, when, what, : why to play! If the server is shut down for a whole weekend because its host : machine is undergoing some mainetenance, that is *NOT ACCEPTABLE*! What we need : is a dedicated IP node for the server, and perhaps several regional such nodes : to improve connectivity later on. And like all other good things in life, it : doesn't, nor should it come free! The fixed cost of paying connectivity charges : for a dediacted node, and even paying a few professionals to look after the : hardware and software of the host machine should be accomodated out of entry : fees for tournaments which could possibly be USCF-sponsored and let USCF take : care of the finanical maintenance of the host, or at the very least even ICS : regulars who don't want to partake in such tournamnets could pay a minimal fee : for the privilege, yes *privilege* of having that service available to them : In short, folks, I'm saying that although personally I won't particiapte on ICS : nearly as actively as I used to in the past, we should all pull together to : make sure ICS WON'T DIE. Just my $0.02's worth ... : Hi Seggev, Nice to see you again. I happen to agree with you entirely. There is a cost to mainting a dedicated chess server, especially a good internet connection. Since all of my internet activity is funded by my University, I have no idea what the real dollars and cents figures come out to. Can any knowledgeable soul please post some financial data for me. I want to know how much it would cost to install/maintain a PERMANENT ICS site. There was talk a few weeks ago about bringing up ICS at a recent USCF meeting. Can anybody tell me what happened in the discussion? As I posted at that time I am a Governer to the CFC (Canadian Federation of Chess). I would be more than happy to approach the CFC on such a matter for the Canadian internet users, but it would be a much stronger proposal if I had the dollars/cents figures, and the knowledge of a similar proposal by USCF memebers. Later, Tim. (Beltim on ICS) -- Tim Philip phi...@skdad.usask.ca We'd like to give you an average, but we've determined that all of your marks are statistical outliers. LEE J. STANLEY Aug 21 1993, 10:49 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: l...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (LEE J. STANLEY) - Find messages by this author Date: 21 Aug 93 16:53:05 GMT Local: Sat, Aug 21 1993 9:53 am Subject: Re: ICS - Past and Future Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse In article , swe...@netcom.com (Seggev Weiss) write s: (much deleted: Seggev's arrival on ics; entertaining story of encountering Anand online, some kind words for ics admins ...) Wow, the legendary Seggev speaks; I just recently arrived on ics, and missed Seggev (at least as "Seggev" ;-}), but have heard much about him. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - >Since its inception at the beginning of 1992, the site of ICS has changed >hands many times - at first every new site had its share of dedicated people >who helped add useful programming features to the server, which more than made >up when it had to move on when the local powers-to-be of its host machine >discovered a god-forbidden game server on their hand and shut off access. Then >it finally settled at valkyries.andrew.cmu.edu and everyone seemed happy. Well, >it was still subject to inherent Eastern archive site on that machine seemed >rather stable. Then one bright spring day, the machine was unplugged and hauled >off for some demos - and basically never came back. That started a talespin of >moving ICS around temporary hosts, first at CMU until thir sys admins got >completely tired of us, then on hosts of volunteer players until they were >'discovered' by their sysadmins as well, and finally settled at MIT - a vener- >able, stable, secure site one might think - WRONG! Apparaently these MIT >machines which have the highest concentration of regular non-local users in the >*world* (how many people are on gnu.ai.mit.edu or athena.mit.edu who have >little or nothing to do with MIT?) can't handle all of sudden an operation >which according to the main code writer himself takes 'negligible' CPU time and >about 15 MB data traffic/day, at *previous* loads of players. But of course it >is more politically convenient to blame folk playing chess on ICS for local lag >than it is to look at all these on gnu.ai.mit.edu doing stuff having absolutely >nothing to do with gnu projects. So instead of shutting down the site >completely, the local politicos decided to limit the number of simulatenous >users to something like 35 during weekday times, a ridiculously small number >considering the global popularity of the server, not to mention it contradicts >the essence of ICS, i.e. the opportunity to play people from variety of back- >grounds ands strengths, or what happens if you connect to leave a message to a >friend but he's the guy you just bumped off ? :( During the nighttime, limit is >increased to a managable number, but that just discrimnates in favor of Euro- >pean and other Non-US users on the *US* server who can still freely login at >times more naturally suitable for them. >*THEREFORE*, I say - enough with net.admin telling ICS players how, when, what, >why to play! If the server is shut down for a whole weekend because its host >machine is undergoing some mainetenance, that is *NOT ACCEPTABLE*! What we need >is a dedicated IP node for the server, and perhaps several regional such nodes >to improve connectivity later on. And like all other good things in life, it >doesn't, nor should it come free! The fixed cost of paying connectivity charges >for a dediacted node, and even paying a few professionals to look after the >hardware and software of the host machine should be accomodated out of entry >fees for tournaments which could possibly be USCF-sponsored and let USCF take >care of the finanical maintenance of the host, or at the very least even ICS >regulars who don't want to partake in such tournamnets could pay a minimal fee >for the privilege, yes *privilege* of having that service available to them >In short, folks, I'm saying that although personally I won't particiapte on ICS >nearly as actively as I used to in the past, we should all pull together to >make sure ICS WON'T DIE. Just my $0.02's worth... Some good here, some not so good; IMHO. The good is the last part about there being a cost for everything and wanting to establish a permanent ics site. The not so good: well, not having any connection to MIT, I feel quite free to say that guests should not complain about the quality of the hospitality they receive; they are always free to leave, and for the moment, I doubt that we are prepared to do so. Best Wishes, L. -- Lee J. Stanley E-Mail: L...@LEHIGH.EDU Department of Mathematics 14 Lehigh University Christmas-Saucon Hall Peter Arsenault Aug 22 1993, 4:36 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: arsen...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Peter Arsenault) - Find messages by this author Date: 22 Aug 93 23:18:02 GMT Local: Sun, Aug 22 1993 4:18 pm Subject: Re: ICS - Past and Future Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse swe...@netcom.com (Seggev Weiss) writes: >ask me my rating(s) - I tell him I'm 2100 USCF and 2300's postal and he replies >"That's pretty good, you are 2300 postal and I'm GM Anand" - I was about to Exciting, Ain't it!@ >nothing to do with gnu projects. So instead of shutting down the site >completely, the local politicos decided to limit the number of simulatenous >users to something like 35 during weekday times, a ridiculously small number >considering the global popularity of the server, not to mention it contradicts >the essence of ICS, i.e. the opportunity to play people from variety of back- >grounds ands strengths, or what happens if you connect to leave a message to a >friend but he's the guy you just bumped off ? :( During the nighttime, limit is >increased to a managable number, but that just discrimnates in favor of Euro- >pean and other Non-US users on the *US* server who can still freely login at >times more naturally suitable for them. >*THEREFORE*, I say - enough with net.admin telling ICS players how, when, what, >why to play! If the server is shut down for a whole weekend because its host >machine is undergoing some mainetenance, that is *NOT ACCEPTABLE*! What we need >is a dedicated IP node for the server, and perhaps several regional such nodes >to improve connectivity later on. Good dear, good. Let's hope that GM's and the like will find time to get around to the different servers. That would be AWESOME! I'd like to see several servers. And there should be something added to ICS that can update how many people are on the other severs, events,etc. That way players can choose different servers based on 'how many people are on it', 'special gm games', whatever may suit your fancy. Peter Puck Eric J. Olson Aug 23 1993, 10:11 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: e...@kaja.gi.alaska.edu (Eric J. Olson) - Find messages by this author Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:48:03 GMT Local: Mon, Aug 23 1993 9:48 am Subject: Relay ICS (was Re: ICS - Past and Future) Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse In article <1993Aug22.231802.11...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> arsen...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Peter Arsenault) writes: >I'd like to see several servers. And there should be something added to ICS >that can update how many people are on the other severs, events,etc. That way >players can choose different servers based on 'how many people are on it', >'special gm games', whatever may suit your fancy. I agree; the ICS servers ought to be more interwoven. In particular I think the ratings should be shared by both existing servers (is there some fair way to start that?) and you could take things a step farther and make everything networked a la IRC; then no particular host would need to take an unfair share of the load, and more servers could pop up (and disappear) all the time without causing undue frustration. I'd be more than willing to help implement this, but I don't know who maintains the ICS code, or the ICS-at-MIT-code, or anything. Eric Olson