Alain Picard Oct 13 1993, 7:46 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: apic...@estsa3.estec.esa.nl (Alain Picard) - Find messages by this author Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 13:52:17 GMT Local: Wed, Oct 13 1993 6:52 am Subject: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I have read with considerable care and interest the proposal of Sleator et al. to turn the ICS into a commercial venture. Here are my two cents worth. At first I thought it was an excellent idea, because I figured I certainly don't mind paying some money to use this excellent (IMHO) service, which would only get better, as described in the said proposal. On second thought, I thought it was a _terrible_ idea, because, thinking about what it is I really like about the ICS, I found that it's the free-wheeling drop-in/drop-out atmosphere which reigns there. I think this would certainly be compromised if, as I suspect, more than half of the current players would simply desert, being unable to pay. (I remember being a grad student... no *way* I would have spent $120/yr for something like ICS). What's more, as someone else has already pointed out, making the ICS paying is the one sure way to guarantee that someone else will write a server. I may be wrong, but I think enough people like the ICS as it is now enough that such a system would win many converts over a paying one. The objection that we would not lose half the players because it'll be free for unrated games does not, in my opinion, hold water, because I think the ICS admins will discover that that system will not work--i.e. if you can use it for free, no one will pay for it. I'm certainly not attached enough to my (albeit measly :-) rating to pay $120 for it (although, as mentioned, I'm willing to pay for the service in and of itself). I strongly suspect most players would agree with me. ICS can't both be free and be not free. One thing which bothers me about the "proposal" is that I can't decide from reading it whether the current owners of ICS are doing this for financial gain or to enhance (in their view) ICS and hence benefit users. Possibly it's for both. If they state their views on this matter more clearly, I think the debate on this issue will be more focussed and productive. Epilogue: In the end, I think the strength of ICS lies in it's user base, and this is something which Mr. Sleator et al. should keep in mind. Fast hardware, nice rating system, tournaments etc. etc. are all very nice, but I log on ICS because it's a great place to chat and play chess, because, on the whole, I like the people there. I may be willing to pay, but if those guys (and gals!) leave, I'm leaving with them. Enough for now, see you soon on the (free for now!) ICS as "ap" Alain Picard Chris Lott Oct 14 1993, 12:12 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: f...@aurora.alaska.edu (Chris Lott) - Find messages by this author Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 18:42:40 GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 14 1993 11:42 am Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - In article , apic...@estsa3.estec.esa.nl (Alain Picard) writes: > Epilogue: > In the end, I think the strength of ICS lies in it's user base, and > this is something which Mr. Sleator et al. should keep in mind. Fast > hardware, nice rating system, tournaments etc. etc. are all very nice, > but I log on ICS because it's a great place to chat and play chess, > because, on the whole, I like the people there. > I may be willing to pay, but if those guys (and gals!) leave, I'm > leaving with them. > Enough for now, > see you soon on the (free for now!) ICS as "ap" > Alain Picard You make good points, but I don't see why the availability of other limited free servers would have to spell out the demise of a commercial ICS. I think the extra features would be worth it to many people, but I may well be skewed because of my rather remote location... I also think that making the system as accessible as possible a broader range of people than are already using the service now would much enhance the commercial possibilities-- and make it a better system for all. I know a lot of people who play chess and use internet resources a lot who had NEVER heard of ICS! I too would like to see a more specific proposal though... -- chris poet and pauper f...@aurora.alaska.edu Tim Cuffel Oct 15 1993, 1:14 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: cuff...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Tim Cuffel) - Find messages by this author Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 03:22:02 GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 14 1993 8:22 pm Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse This proposal didn't make it to me. Could someone repost or email? Thanks -- Tim Cuffel "The religious right scares the hell out of me!" - Barry Goldwater Ole Tange Oct 15 1993, 3:34 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: t...@daimi.aau.dk (Ole Tange) - Find messages by this author Date: 15 Oct 1993 10:20:51 GMT Local: Fri, Oct 15 1993 3:20 am Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Thus spake cuff...@spot.Colorado.EDU (Tim Cuffel): >This proposal didn't make it to me. Could someone repost or email? >Thanks >-- >Tim Cuffel "The religious right scares the hell out of me!" > - Barry Goldwater It appears, I've not been reading the News for the past 2 weeks. Could someone please summarize/repost/email the articles concerning the Commercial server. -- -- Never (NEVER) run elm and rmail simultanously t...@daimi.aau.dk v...@aarhues.dk Jeffrey C. Ely Oct 15 1993, 11:05 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: j...@econ.Berkeley.EDU (Jeffrey C. Ely) - Find messages by this author Date: 15 Oct 1993 17:26:48 GMT Local: Fri, Oct 15 1993 10:26 am Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse In article <29lti3...@belfort.daimi.aau.dk>, Ole Tange wrote: >It appears, I've not been reading the News for the past 2 weeks. >Could someone please summarize/repost/email the articles concerning the >Commercial server. >-- >-- That's funny, your name was attatched to the original proposal. I also find it funny that although they have been advertising "No Player Limits" since the beginning, now that Darooha and friends want us to pay for ics, the euro server has started implementing player-limits. (I was queued yesterday) Jeff &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Jeff Ely* "He said the Sun's not yellow... Department of Economics, UC Berkeley It's Chicken!" j...@econ.berkeley.edu &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& *No opinions, unemployed Ole Tange Oct 16 1993, 12:03 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: t...@daimi.aau.dk (Ole Tange) - Find messages by this author Date: 16 Oct 1993 06:57:14 GMT Local: Fri, Oct 15 1993 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Thus spake j...@econ.Berkeley.EDU (Jeffrey C. Ely): >In article <29lti3...@belfort.daimi.aau.dk>, >Ole Tange wrote: >>It appears, I've not been reading the News for the past 2 weeks. And our newsdisks aren't that big. >>Could someone please summarize/repost/email the articles concerning the >>Commercial server. >>-- >>-- >That's funny, your name was attatched to the original proposal. What's so funny about that? I knew we were about to post it. Just not when exactly. Tell me the funny part so I can have a laugh, too. >I also find it funny that although they have been advertising "No Player >Limits" since the beginning, now that Darooha and friends want us to pay >for ics, the euro server has started implementing player-limits. (I was >queued yesterday) Hehe, OK consider this: If all people having internet access telnet'ted to bentley at the same time, then bentley would crash for sure. It is not _exactly_ what happened, but the server has a bug so it removes files (players/help-files) from the disk when the number of players raises above app. 100. Therefore the playerlimit. >Jeff >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& >Jeff Ely* "He said the Sun's not yellow... >Department of Economics, UC Berkeley It's Chicken!" >j...@econ.berkeley.edu >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& >*No opinions, unemployed -- -- - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Never (NEVER) run elm and rmail simultanously t...@daimi.aau.dk v...@aarhues.dk Garvin Nunes Oct 17 1993, 4:49 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.chess From: a8717...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Garvin Nunes) - Find messages by this author Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 23:33:52 GMT Local: Sun, Oct 17 1993 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Musings on proposal for a commercial ICS [LONG] Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I belive in ICS's "right" to charge for their service but...the amount they want to charge is more that my CFC membership (about the same as USCF) and WBCA memberships combined. For my CFC membership I get the right to play in tournaments anywhere, and a subscription to "EN PASSANT", Canada's chess magazine. I don't raise this issue in order to make a choice between ICS and say, the USCF, I raise it merely as a point of compairson between professional chess entertainment "packaages". Now I can understand $120 being worth it to people in isolated regions, but in a city (as in the case of myself) one can go to a local club, for example. Now chess tounaments\clubs often have rating and entry fees, but there is no compairison between the quality of the games in a real tournament and ICS. ICS if far inferior because of net lag. Also, I have *never* played a two hour game on ICS. ICS users seem interested in shorter games. I know ICS wants to bring in other interactive features, relative to the interactive computer environment, but the reason I use ICS is to play chess tournaments and hear chess news. The free ICS does these things ok but it is certainly not the professional job I would expect for $120. As I mentioned before there is the problem of net lag. Also, because my monitor is CGA, I have to use the giics interface in monocrome mode (giics does not support CGA) so I can not use my mouse. So obvously tournament quality (for me) is not really that high a standard on ICS. Getting "news" or gossip is not that great either since in mono mode, the giics interface only gives three lines (!) of text. Ninety-nine percent of the chess conversations zip by me, including messages to me personally. Im not complaining about ICS because the server is fun and more than adequate. I will certainly continue to log on, even if I have to do so as an unregistered user. However, it is far from the professional service that I would expect for $120. (What's that in Canadian money??) Thanks for listening to my opinion, Garvin Nunes (Guard) Email a8717...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca