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Interview with Andy Trochez
In his home in Kahuku on December 1, 1977
By Norma Carr
Carr . . . : Mr Trochez, could you tell me where you were born, please?
Trochez : Yauco, Puerto Rico .
Carr . . . : What year?
Trochez : 1891.
Carr . . . : How old were you when you came to Hawaii?
Trochez : Ten years.
Carr . . . : Do you remember anything about Puerto Rico?
Trochez : Oh, yes, sure I do.
Carr . . . : What do you remember the most about Puerto Rico?
Trochez : Bananas.
Carr . . . : Bananas? Okay.
Trochez : Bananas and aguacate ...Tamarindo and guama. There was another fruit they called guava.
Small little ones. And of course, bananas and mangoes, oranges, all kind fruits.
Carr . . . : Did you go to school in Puerto Rico?
Trochez : No. There was no schools in those days. Not in the country in there.
But in the cities they had.
Carr . . . : So you lived in Yauco ; was that a town?
Trochez : We didn't live in Yauco ; we live up in the country.
I couldn't tell you how many miles away--
I used to go to town with my father on horseback. What they call that?
Piggy, piggy ride, when you ride behind on the horse? Piggy-back, yeah.
We used to go to Yauco shopping.
Shopping for what--what you going to do--nothing in the store.
They had some things, you know. And then, I used to pick coffee with the gang.
I used to go up in the field and pick coffee.
When I small boy, my father used to take a tree and pull it down and tie the end
to put a peg in the ground, you know,that way bring the tree down to my height.
And I had my little basket, and pick coffee. When lunch come we all go eat.
Bananas and cod fish. I no remember nothing else, only bananas and cod fish.
I don't know how many days I worked.
Carr . . . : Did your father collect salary for you?
Trochez : Yeah. No--they take 'em, I couldn't tell You that. No, I couldn't take that.
Carr . . . : Was this your father's coffee farm or somebody else?
Trochez : No, no. Plantation. Plantation by the name of Pancho Mejias, Spanish people, I think.
Corso. And they, they get fifty cents a day-full day-ten hours,I think, was ten hours.
They come home almost dark. And when they--quitting time--the men,
before quitting time--they send them out in the field.
They give them certain amount -- a little time for chop up firewood because they--
you cook with wood. You know that very well. Some people go steal bananas.
They go pick whenever-- but I could not steal because I did it myself, too.
Everybody had to bring home one bunch banana on top fire wood.
You know, like a deck. Go home just like, that.
Carr . . . : The cod fish, what did they call that? In Spanish, - do you remember?
Trochez : Bacalao. When you go to the store, you had to spend those 50 cents.
But, most times the ladies go in the morning to the store.
They get their 50 cents for today to spend on tomorrow, see?
Because it was late today to go to the store, so they--50 cents,
they pay you right there every night they get their 50 cents.
Maybe later on would be more high than that but I don't know.
As far as I know was 50 cents. And then they go home and they
give money to the --50 cents to their old lady and then the next day she go.
Many times I did go, to shop, to the store.
The less you could buy was half-cent of something. Half a cent.
Sugar or lard maybe half cent was plenty.
And they no was like here, there was no tasting--they take piece paper--
I don't know how they fold 'em-- hacian un paquetito
Carr . . . : A. packet .
Trochez : But they made--they had like this, see? And you twist 'em around.
Then they--you go and buy what you could--buy rice, only five cents.
And then you buy some banana--no forget, you had to buy some banana and some beans.
Carr . . . : Were the bananas...
Trochez : That was all cheap, very cheap, yes. Very, very cheap.
Carr . . . : How big was your family then--your mother, your father, you...?
Trochez : And two sisters and one brother. A brother. A brother came Hawaii--small.
One little girl stood in Puerto Rico. Buried there.
We was five in Puerto Rico. Three came and...four came--my two sisters,
who stay here in Hawaii. One died from childbirth, the other one was shot.
Another lady shot her. And then the boy died in Kekaha
And we go back to Puerto Rico then...
Carr . . . : You went back to Puerto Rico?
Trochez : No, no. We go back in the conversation. They used to go hunt for food ev.
..plenty fruits--get all kind fruits around--plenty fruits. We go
pick up fruits, bring home for suppliment. I don't remember eating one stew.
Carr . . . : You don't remember what?
Trochez : Eating stew.
Carr . . . : Eating stew? You mean, meat?
Trochez : Meat, like that, yeah. They must have it 'cause there was plenty cows.
You know, our-house--you know the post, from the house,
that holds the house up, the foundation--tall--you could go under-
-a - man could walk under the house. And the same house, they used that
for fence for the cattle. So, from our window, we could see the cattles--
and the smell came through the window, too, sometimes.
Carr . . . : Did they have any other animals around? Like farm animals?
Trochez : Well, the cattle do the, oxen, you know, they pull this coffee--
they have a coffee mill-- they have a flue-like, like that, see, round.
And it's a ditch--that's where the coffee goes, inside there.
And the ox pull the big wheel--the big wheel is going through there, see,
smashing the coffee inside there.
Carr . . . : Counter clockwise?
Trochez : Yeah. Inside there, see?
Carr . . . : And you say that oxen pulled?
Trochez : Oxen, yeah. Oxen pulled that. And they have horses, too, for ride.
Carr . . . : Did they raise any other animals for eating?
Trochez : Yeah, chicken and pig--yeah, pig, I remember plenty.
Especially this-time of the year, everybody getting ready their pigs for Christmas.
That I remember. There was plenty parties.
Carr . . . : church near where you lived?
Trochez : No, not too near. But I couldn't tell you how many miles was--was quite a distance.
Let's say four or five miles, maybe, in measure. Maybe more, maybe less,
hard to tell, you know? But, it was a distance. So, my mother was married--
when she was married, my mother took me...they was coming to Hawaii...the same day,
or one day we stood in Guanica , that's the port we sailed from-- Guanica --
that's where we sailed from and she took me to the church, to see the church inside.--
Small church. It's still there-- Johnny Morris told me, still there.
Carr . . . : And she and your father. had been married in that church?
Trochez : Yeah, they had been married.
Carr . . . : Okay. Do you remember anything else about leaving Puerto Rico?
Trochez : Leaving?
Carr . . . : Yeah, when you left to come to Hawaii? How did you go from Yauco to Guanica ?
Trochez : From Yauco to Guanica in oxen cart. One oxen or two pulling. .Had a yoke.
Like a dog cart here, something like that. I remember that. And the oxen pulling.
Carr . . . : Did you bring anything with you? Did your parents bring any belongings,
any possessions with them?
Trochez : I couldn't tell you...they had some things, I imagine ...some little...no box,
there was no box, I no remember seeing boxes. But they had little bundles.
That I remember.
Carr . . . : Do you remember receiving any clothes--like winter clothes--for the trip?
Trochez : Oh, boy, I couldn't say, I couldn't say. I was too busy,
maybe playing with the kids outside on the beach.
Carr . . . : Yeah. So, while you were waiting for the...
Trochez : That's where I got stabbed--one fellow stab me. I had a cut before--the day before,
a couple days before we came to Hawaii--I went see my grandmother.
My mother's mother. And tell her good-bye. We went to the house, she was there,
and she said, My dear little children, you know, she starts crying. And saying,
what I can do for you. So she went and she took three--how much was?--
three eggs. Three eggs. Because me and my two sisters went. I was ten,
the other was a little less than nine, and the other one was less than eight, I think.
And she put these three eggs in a braza they call' em braza , you know.
Cook on hot ashes , And she told us, "you eat this because maybe it's the last time
you will eat from my hands." I remember that. And then,we was glad and jumping around.
We came home. And then, our house was --the floor was of coconut palms but they
are not level--they are--coconut is round, eh, but they cut the bunch small
and what they make is kinda burn by, the floor, you know. And so I told my mother,
Can I do...I was brushing my teeth--how come I was brushing my teeth in Puerto Rico?
I remember that. So I told my mother, I going cut up this board from the floor.
So I went and I took one knife, it was, I think, and I cut one big piece wood
from the floor, take 'em out, and I go make one fire wood, for cook.
Cause was coming-- we no care for the house already--one old shack, I think it was.
And then--that was late in the afternoon--so during the afternoon, I was passing,
I went through a hole--my leg--and I went get one big cut on my leg. Yeah, the leg--
I get the mark here--Yeah, big mark I get here on my leg. And then in Guanica
playing in the sand-- with a big can and all kind stuffs for the kids pickup--
somebody step on top that sore, with their heavy shoes-- peel that down.
And then they took me to the doctor over there. So I went to the doctor
and I cried like hell, I scared the doctor. So he was begging, stop crying.
But I stopped crying, I think. So, then we go eat sugar. They had the sugar pipe
behind the warehouses they had warehouses in the big city and the little children
liked it over there. Then we go catch crabs. Bring 'em home, tie 'em on a rope.
Carr . . . : You caught the crabs with a rope?
Trochez : You been seen the picture, someone landed the crab? Who was? Johnny Morris told
me, I think. Still they do that there, I think..the crab ..they still play with 'em.
Carr . . . : Do you remember anything about the ship?
Trochez : Yeah. The ship. My...I have a joke about my father.
My father was sometime down under...down the deck. And he was sick, the poor man,
God bless his soul. And I was on top, looking down--
the boat was play for a ten year old boy.
The sailors took to me and they had me all over the place--
they take me all over the place.
And I was looking down, I see my father, he look up from the bed, sick as he was,
and he look around--he was looking around, maybe something for eat, you know.
And he find this big piece of salt, like that--white salt--he thought was sugar.
He pull 'em out, he got junk. Oh, poor thing, was sick over there me on top laughing.
..And then one time I slide. Lucky not in the ocean, though.
They give me one heavy shoes. First time I wear shoes--I never know what was.
And I was walking in my nice pair shoes and I slide--zzzzzzzz--I been scared.
Carr . . . : On the ship you went?
Trochez : Yeah, but nothing happen because here was this little guy, eh? over there,
the sailors was around there. Working, taking care. Pick you up.
Carr . . . : What was the name of the ship?
Trochez : California.
Carr . . . : From Puerto Rico?
Trochez : California
Carr . . . : Straight to here?
Trochez : No, no, to Los Angeles.
Carr . . . : You went straight to Los Angeles?
Trochez : Los Angeles, yeah. No, no, no, to New Orleans.
Carr . . . : Right.
Trochez : To New Orleans. I was there now looking the place. I went there, to New Orleans.
Carr . . . : You went to New Orleans, do you remember it as a long trip or a short trip?
Trochez : I think took six days, I think.
Carr . . . : I think that's about right. Yeah. And do you remember,
did you get to stay in New Orleans any time?
Trochez : That, I think we was in New Orleans ,. could be that we was in the train,
but I don't think so, I don't think so. I think from the ship we went out.
Carr . . . : Do you remember, was there a leader,
sombebody who was the leader of the Puerto Rican group?
Trochez : Yeah, this fellow Casal
Carr . . . : Was he Puerto Rican? Or was he ?
Trochez : I couldn't tell you that.
Carr . . . : Okay. Do you remember if he spoke Spanish? -
Trochez : Well, he was speaking to those people there--must be Spanish.
Carr . . . : He must of spoken Spanish.
Trochez : Nobody know nothing about English around there. He knew English,
'cause people have told me.
You know, the day we got on the train, and we was riding on the train,
and then we see these houses going, going, I was telling my mother,
How the hell the houses over here--the city houses--going. This is true you know.
Las cosas que pasan a uno ..the ocean.
Took six days more to reach Los Angeles in the train.
Took about one month, the trip, almost a whole month. 29 days, I think was.
Carr . . . : Were you comfortable on the train?
Trochez : Well, Better than ship, because you sleep on top there. I sleep with my father...
Carr . . . : How was the train? What you were telling me about? About pulling the beds out.
Trochez : WelI...the beds up there. The trains are this way, no ? Then, you. pull down the bed,
then the thing stays up there, and you have to climb up. I think they get steps,
I don't know. You have to go up there.
Carr . . . : Well, in Spanish they wouldn't know, but did anybody ever call it a Pullman ?
Was it a Pullman car ?
Trochez : I don't know, but I think all the cars were plenty cars, eh?
Carr . . . : About how many Puerto Ricans were in that group? Have you any idea?
How many Puerto Ricans were on that ship and on that train?
Trochez : I don't know. Must be a thousand, I think.
Carr . . . : Maybe a thousand? Okay.
Trochez : According to what the people talk around, see, after they get here to Hawaii,
after ten years, after 15... time goes . they keep on talking
they say maybe mil, ochocientios, guesswork, see?
Was big ships, you know. Was big ships in those days.
Carr . . . : It was a big ship?
Trochez : It was. I imagine so.
Carr . . . : What did you eat on the ship, do you remember?
Trochez : What I ate most was crackers. The sailors had me full with crackers.
That's why I eat so many crackers now--I eat crackers four times a day now, right?
All my life. Four times a day--not only crackers, but I eat crackers every day.
And so does my daughter. And they are good.
Carr . . . : Do you remember any other kind of food?
Trochez : Rice, meat.
Carr . . . : How about on the train?
Trochez : I think the train was a little different. They had more fruits, I think.
They had about the same but they had more fruits, you know, is more
cheap to get than the other.
Carr . . . : That's possible, on the land, sure. Do you remember anybody being sick on the train?
Trochez : On the train, no, I don't think so. Well, they been stop the train to bury one guy,
in Yuma,I think, some place around there. On the ship we saw one guy going down.
Maybe they took some more but I saw only one. In the ocean.
Carr . . . : You mean was buried at sea?
Trochez : Buried, yeah, buried. Only one I. saw, But they took some more, I think.
I think they bury some more in the ocean.
Carr . . . : In just six day trip, yet somebody died?
Trochez : Yeah, something like that. Must be a small kid, I think.:
Small coffin. ..a small package. .
Carr . . . : Oh, so you think it was a young person? And on the train, they stopped
to bury somebody and did all the Puerto Ricans get off the train for that?
Trochez : No, no, no, not all, I don't think so. Very few, I think. They put him down.
They took...they said they going bury somebody so...they was talking somebody died,
they going to have to leave 'em here and they going to bury it here.
Carr . . . : Do you remember the train stopping along the way? For other things?
Trochez : Oh, yes, plenty places. They stop for the ladies go wash clothes--their clothing.
And for people go buy fruits and something to eat--cookies. Stop some plenty places.
Carr . . . : Were there stores along the way?
Trochez : Oh, yes, sure. Get always stores and houses. That's about 3,000 miles, eh?
No, 2,500 You know, distance. Plenty stores I never check the map .
Well , we come through north of Louisiana Bay, I think,
I think past one of those cities--Houston or Dallas, I think I don't know.
Carr . . . : Can you still remember your parents on the trip did they talk about what was waiting for them,
or did they talk about getting home to Puerto Rico again?
Trochez : No, they don't mention going back to Puerto Rico. No. They would like to get out from Puerto Rico.
That's true, I know, it was my parents. Very few went back, very few.
Carr . . . : Do you know of anybody who went back?
Trochez : Well, not that related to me, anything like that, see. But I know that some went back.
You mean, from the ship and from the train on the way?
Carr . . . : Yeah, or even after they got to Hawaii, after a year, or a few years. Anytime.
Trochez : Oh, yeah. They didn't go straight to Puerto Rico but they went to the mainland,
a few of them, went to the mainland. Yeah.
And from there, they went Puerto Rico. Few, not very many.
Carr . . . : You were a young child--you were ten--
but do you know why your parents wanted to leave Puerto Rico7
Trochez : To come to...a country of opportunity. Because they say was more opportunity,
and I think it was, and it is.
Carr . . . : But why? What was different? Why would there be more opportunity here than back home?
Trochez : Well, the wages, I think, the money. The money problem. Over there was more low wages.
Maybe the amount of money was the same but was cheaper money.
Carr . . . : Before, when we were talking, before we had the tape on, you were talking
about certain things that had happened in Puerto Rico, like big storms.
Trochez : Oh, the cyclone--the hurricanes. Yeah. And then the hurricane that was 1898. I think.
I'm positive because I couldn't be younger than eight years.
This time was noticing already the little warning signs , and the trees,
small animals all shook up and then. ..I know we was in the kitchen...
we had a big house, big house--tin roof, you know? Hecho de lata.
And the wind came and the kitchen was big and we used to cook out in the kitchen,
but on the ground--they get little anafre, I think they called it
put the pots over there. And this wind came, one swift one,
took everything all the pots went fly out, everything fly out from the kitchen.
And then this people start to tight the doors.
Like in our house, was four rooms I think was the house.
They make hole through the walls. Everybody like see this room,
but they went make hole through the walls to pass the food from the kitchen,
or from the house--they cook and they pass the...bananas, yes.
Not much food, eh. .But they cook for the people eat, eh? That I remember.
We used to look by the hole and wait for the banana to come up .
Carr . . . : Who was bringing the bananas?
Trochez : There was a cook.. .some folks was cooking on the other walls.
Carr . . . : Oh, I see. So, within the same house.
Trochez : In the same house, yeah, in the same house.
Carr . . . : Do you remember anybody being sick in Puerto Rico,in your family?
Did anybody get sick after the storms?
Trochez : I don't know, but my little sister died after the storm. She was one of the...
I don't know if was the cause of the storm, but. I don't think I could answer that.
Carr . . . : Alright. So now.. .
Trochez : What gets me is that all these straw houses...
there was one couple living about, well, let's say about a quarter mile
from where build that mill, I think, eh? In one little shack.
Covered with roots ...shack, covered with grass. Tied down.
And the storm came and everybody...in the morning,
when people get together--we all go get together and talk-
-I hear some fellows read some letters. ..
was reading some letters there about the storm, what had happened,
all the houses went out to the sea. ..And then, they bring the shopping.
they say, How is. ..was compadre to some people, some was friends.
..How is our friend that lives maybe a mile from here, how is he?
The little shack ..what could the little shack be?
They went look for the little shack, the little shack was there with
them inside. Was inside the shack, him and the wife. What you think about that,
with the storm that broke those big trees come down. And that I remember.
And them was all broke in half, was a mess when you look. And there was some more,
you see, 'cause fellows--they was grown up, they could see better,
and they get more remembrance. Like me, no. But I remember those bananas
--oh half chopped all mangled up. Big trees and little creeks
that never get water in time immemorial running like crazy
with water through there all over the place. Was a mess there, I remember.
Carr . . . : What happened to the viandas.
Trochez : Las viandas? I don't know. I think .. They say that that, but the Batatera that
was before that, not this one. That was before that. San Filipe, I think was the name.
Carr . . . : So that happened before?
Trochez : Yeah, before San Giriaco
Carr . . . : And...Did the combination, then, oh, nevermind.
Trochez : Go ahead.
Carr . . . : Well, I was wondering if it was, you know, like too many things happening
one after the other, that made people want to leave?
Trochez : Well, the Spanish War was during that time, you know, just before, I think.
No, I think was after. That I don't know for sure--
I couldn't tell you for certain. The Spanish war, you know?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : I saw the soldiers--they came to our house. All dressed in blue,
they came and asked for water and drank water.
Carr . . . : Whose soldiers--which soldiers?
Trochez : Spanish soldiers. And the American soldiers was -- steamers was in there--
you could see clear from where we was in the mountain and look down
we see down the steamers in the bay- - Guanica. And that I remember.
and then the soldiers--they Spanish soldiers, not the American soldiers.
running away. That was the end of the battle--it was 1898.
I think the cyclone was after--I think a little bit after.
Carr . . . : It was. That's right.
Trochez : 1899?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : I think so, but I couldn't tell you was 1899.
Carr . . . : You have a very good memory. Mr. Trochez, did the Puerto Ricans
ever say anything about the Spaniards ? How do you think that
the Puerto Ricans felt about the Spaniards?
Trochez : They never liked the Spanish. They never liked. I say that from my father
and my brother-in-law they never liked them. And everybody.
Carr . . . : How about the Spanish people that you met here, later on?
How did you like them, or how did your parents like them?
Trochez : Oh, okay. Yeah, because these are the Spanish that came from Spain to here. See?
And it's a different thing--new people, they get nothing to do with those ones
that was in Puerto Rico. All the soldiers went from Spain, I know.
Carr . . . : Yeah, but it was a different situation.
Trochez : Yes.
Carr . . . : Alright. Well, you have really a good memory about your experience traveling
and your experience as a child in Puerto Rico.
Now, do you remember anything about leaving Los Angeles?
Trochez : No, over there we were transferred to...the steamer's name San Leandro.
I think was the name San Leandro .I think that was the name.
They feed us and give us plenty fruit-- they used to--oh, was a big day there.
Get plenty people there in Los Angeles. Fruits around, and we took the ship there.
Took us six, seven days to-- maybe more--to come to Honolulu.
But when we reach Honolulu, there was--they had Puerto Ricans here already.
They were at the--they were waiting for us at Waimea, Kauai. We went to Waimea, Kauai
on a little steamer called Mikahala--inter-island boats. When we reach Waimea,
the Puerto Ricans was there already--they had come the previous group.
Carr . . . : Were there many Puerto Ricans waiting for you?
Trochez : Well, no, not so many--could be 20, something like that.
Carr . . . : Were you surprised to see Puerto Ricans?
Trochez : Well, for my part, no, but my parents did. See, because I never know
what it was anyhow. And I don't know what was going on anyhow. That's right, eh?
Carr . . . : As a little child, yes, it's hard to tell some of these things.
Trochez : But my parents, oh, they were happy. They had brought some food, too,
from their house--the Puerto Ricans--and they all sit over there on the floor
and eat over there. Very nice, very nice.
Carr . . . : No chairs?
Trochez : They had, but that was on the wharf.
Carr . . . : Do you know if your father brought any seeds of any kind with him?
Did you ever see your father planting seeds that he brought from Puerto Rico?
Trochez : I don't know.
Carr . . . : Allright. What kind of a house did you go to live in on this first plantation?
Trochez : Well, was a good house--was three houses along the hillside. And had mango trees--
was beautiful place. We live under the mango trees. And we only stood there
one week, and they move us to the mill-near the mill we move. Near the shore.
Houses. ..houses with thousands of cockroaches inside--all over the cockroaches.
Terrible. You know the--you know the little boat over there--where the boat house --
no more the little cars, see? Well, the cockroaches live in there.
And we used to take the newspapers-magazines--the newspapers no more in those days--
magazines--and we open them and we paste the whole wall of the house all with paper--
with the flour-- majarete de harina deitrigo flour, eh?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : And we put down the paper and paste 'em--the whole damn thing--
and we hear those fellows night time making noise through there.
And in order to kill them, we go take hot water and we shoot--
with buckets, eh?--and then you sweep them up in piles.
But in piles! Terrible, yeah?
Carr . . . : Was there any furniture in that house?
Trochez : No. They had the little bunks--wooden bunks. We called them beds hut was--bed.
Bigger than this. Double ones, and single .
And you must remember, they wooden, de madera.
Carr . . . : Mr. Trochez, ten-year-old, did they put you in school? When you came?
Trochez : Yes. We went to school.
Carr . . . : What was the name of the school?
Trochez : Same as the plantation--plantation's Kekaha.
Carr . . . : What grade did they put you in?
Trochez : I don't know, must be first grade, eh? .. Was big by for first grade:
Carr . . . : Because you were ten, you mean?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : At what age did children usually start school in those days?
Trochez : I think the same--six--five or six--yes, I think.
Carr . . . : Do you remember anything about the school?
Trochez : Well, the school--the only thing was that we had a Mexican teacher and she helped
us a lot with our education. Well enough to read Spanish and write Spanish--
in the school-- while I was in school.
Carr . . . : You mean, during the day, she could teach you...?
Trochez : No, no, no--English. But after school time was over, we go to her house.
we had yard--one boy goes to the market, get her her meat, the beef--
and another boy cleans the yard and she - Work inside and then
she takes little time off-- half an hour or something--
and she talks to us in Spanish. Mostly she was talk to us in Spanish.
And that's how--Mexico--and Hawaii. .So that helped quite a bit.
Carr . . . : Did you have any books in Spanish?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : Did she give you any lessons in reading or writing Spanish?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : So, the lessons were all during the day--in writing or in reading--were in English?
Trochez : Yeah, we picked that up. We picked it up at home. We had some friends
that come from Puerto Rico-- very smart people--Spanish. Very smart.
Like, Hosino, Don Carlos Ramon Mendez. was plenty. - could read and write.
Carr . . . : And, did they have things that you could read?
Did they have books or magazines in Spanish that you could read?
Trochez : They had a few prayer books, like that, and-- most. prayer books.
And then they write--they show us in writing.
Carr . . . : They taught you how to write Spanish?
Trochez : Yeah. And I was very dedicated, eh? During my school recess,
I never go out play one time--I stay in school on the desk and I keep on writing,
studying there--I never go out play one time.
Maybe once in a while, but most time I stay inside. Study.
Carr . . . : How long did you go to school?
Trochez : Well,I think I quit--six, seven years, I think. I think quit school 1917.
That June of that year, 1917. Six years. -
Carr . . . : What other nationalities or races were in the school with you?
Trochez : Germans, Norwegians. I think just two nationalities
And then Japanese. The Koreans came while we was in school--Koreans came.
And Portuguese had Portuguese already there, long before us.
Spanish came while we was there--1907, I think. And they had some more Portuguese
came--1907, too, I think they came. And they had Negroes came.
Then they had Indians. Some of them wear big rings over here--men, eh?
You hear about those things--ever hear?
Carr . . . : So, you went to school with all of these children. Did they speak English?
Trochez : No, no, no. Some, when they come from their country, not at first,
but after,---they learn and they speak, sure.
Carr . . . : What was the attitude of your parents about school about education for you?
Trochez : Well, you see, my father was very interested and that's why he kept me in school
you had to quit at 15 years 'cause the time--you pau school--you through already.
But my father kept me in two years more. 17. was 1907. Six years, anyhow, six years.
Carr . . . : Were you aware of other people wanting more education for their children?
Trochez : Japanese, yeah.
Carr . . . : Japanese. Okay. Did you work part-time while you were in school?
Trochez : Yeah, in the plantation, oh, yeah.
Carr . . . : What kind of work did you do?
Trochez : Cut grass with a hoe and mostly was weeding--they call it weeding.
Cutting grass with a hoe.
Carr . . . : Do you remember what you got paid?
Trochez : Twenty-five cents for ten hours.
Carr . . . : Were there women working along with you?
Trochez : Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Women. And I was ashamed
because I always gotta find the line- -oh, boy. This Pepe's wife's
sisters- -their mother Oricia Rivera's wife. And Nicola Vegas' Catalina.
They help me plenty. Without help I no go see the line. I thought ,
maybe I could see it. And these ladies take care of me. Sometimes I blush
Carr . . . : What do you mean you couldn't see the lines?
Trochez : I see the lines.-I don't know where to start it- -I don't know why.
Carr . . . : Oh, the lever?
Trochez : No, the lines--rows, eh?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : I start here and then I find myself way down there someplace, I don't know.
Where I see weeds I go..
Carr . . . : You mean, you were supposed to weed in a straight line?
Trochez : Well, they like. it straight. In the old days was short lines--thirty feet -
they had water courses, eh? Water course where the water goes to irrigations.
Then they look up and the foreman would send me home. I went on top the mill,
go drink, liquors. Plenty mangoes, those days, you know.
Carr . . . : So, the ladies helped you to keep a straight line?
Trochez : Yeah, they helped me.
Carr . . . : Do you know anything about what women were paid in those days?
Trochez : I think they was paid about forty or fifty--forty cents, I think, or maybe less.
But to start I was getting quarter and then went up to thirty...
Later on I was getting $1.10 already, just like the men, see?
Carr . . . : During the summer did you work ?
Trochez : Summer time--just the summer time, yeah. Until I quit school--when I quit school,
I go work every day. Otherwise papa would...
Carr . . . : What kind of work did you then? Your first job after you quit school?
Trochez : I went waterboy for about--let's say, one month, two months--I don't know--
that's when I went to that job. Foreman job.
Carr . . . : What did a waterboy do?
Trochez : Go get water--two buckets on a stick- -fill up -- with water and come to the gang,
pass water. Some time they get mad and throw the water on top you.
Carr . . . : You'd pass water to the workers...
Trochez : To the workers, yeah.
Carr . . . : And was that at regular times? Was there a schedule for you to do that or...
Trochez : No, you had schedule. Oh, yeah, schedule. Every hour you pass water.
Something like that--hour or hour-and-a-half. It was fun.
Carr . . . : About how much water did you carry at a time?
Trochez : Not too much, I think.
Carr . . . : Well, were they big cans that you carried or...
Trochez : Well, we had kerosene cans mostly--we had buckets but some people
use the kerosene cans--five gallons.
Carr . . . : Five gallons. You carried two...
Trochez : ...Two--two at one time. Not me, not me--I no can lift 'em up.-
Carr . . . : Did you do any other kind of work on the pantation?
Did you stay on the plantation?
Trochez : Yeah, I stayed, yeah, until I came to this island. But when I came this island
I was a foreman already. And I quit, see?
Carr . . . : So you were still on the island of Kauai...
Trochez : Kauai, yeah...
Carr . . . : all that time during your first jobs. ..
Trochez : Till 1911.
Carr . . . : 1911. Then in 1911, you went to another plantation?
Trochez : No, I came to..yeah, to Waialua, but I went work for the Mitchell Telephone Company.
I worked six months, I think. And from there, they fired me up--
I mean, the job was through--and then I came back and I...
Carr . . . : What kind of work did you do for the telephone company?
Trochez : Dig holes and..telephone job--pull wires for the other guys. Not too hard to pull.
Then I went apply Waialua job and I got the job. Water luna
-not luna, water luna you ride horse. Have to ride the horse, to go around the fields,
check up the laborers--irrigators. They put water in the cane.
Carr . . . : So, then, you were responsible for how much water went in the..is that called a flume?
Trochez : Flumes, yeah. The water come through ditches. Big pressure_hose .divide them up.
We get ditchmens. Each field has a--one man lead-- he take care of the water--
for every field. Some fields get. ..In those days, was only a few acres a man.
Today they give them a hundred acres or more, one man. Now all different ways
and methods. And then, each field--like I was thinking--get 2,000 acres--
so that would be about 20 men, eh? Twenty hundred acre fields--so each field has -
about eight-nine men--so one man take care of the waters.
Carr . . . : The job as water luna--that paid better?
Trochez : Oh, yeah. When I got married I was making $35 a month. 1916 I was making $35.
Carr . . . : So 1916 is when you got married?
Troches: Yeah.
Carr . . . : And what is your wife's name?
Trochez : Mary.
Carr . . . : What was her--is she Puerto Rican?
Trochez : She was.
Then after I quit school, I went to work. And then after--I start to work
with my father--we had a contract --irrigation- -sugar cane fields.
We gets the contract and they gave us $580-in those days was big money. Big money.
$580 to divide between four men--me, papa, Cornie and Cruz Baron.
So, papa gave me $90. And I been run through--I had it fixed up for one
horse already. I take that and I run to Masuda's house--not Masuda here, on Kauai--
pick up my little mare. Una yeguita, eh. , .I bring the horse home.
I picked a little filly, a little female. And same time I bought her a little car--
a sulky with two wheels.. .
Carr . . . : How much did that car cost you? Oh, a cart, for the horse?
Trochez : Cart, yeah) was a cart , automobile, no. Cart, yeah.
Carr . . . : How much did that cost?
Trochez : $35. Second hand, was. And the horse, $90. No, I think was--
the cart was pretty good for $35. And then... I stayed there until...
I ride the horse and we used to go see our girls down to Lihue. Lihue.
I don't know if you know Kauai-- Lihue. And then I came to,
I think to, to Waialua-- that's when I came...
(End of side one)
The second interview with Mr. Trochez. Today is December 29, 1977.
Carr . . . : Mr. Trochez, could you please tell me how you met and courted Maria?
Trochez : Well, I met Mary before..before we got married I had met her four years before that.
And, one day she was passing, I was with some friends--we was drinking.
And they ask me, Who is that beautiful girl passing by. I told them,
That's going be my future wife. And then, after that I didn't...
I went to the house for a little while..in her house and then after that I went home.
And I forgot that girl for a little while. Then, recollections came back
and I went again and see her. And every Saturday I used to go see her, see.
And then, one day I went to the house - one Saturday and she and her mother was home.
And I told her mother...and her mother told me that she was inside the room -
washing clothes. And then I told her mother to bring the girl out.
She say For what? I tell her, I like talk to her. So she went in
to call the daughter out. She came out and I tried to sit on the bench--
I was sitting on the bench and I told her to sit on the bench near to me.
I went over there, talk to her and I told she wants...I was going to...
I wanted she to marry me. Then she say that I have to wait four years more.
So we waited another eight months and we were married. And from there on
I used to go see her every Saturday. And for a little while I forgot to go see her
then she got sick--she was sick with the measles, I think. Chicken pox.
So a friend of mine came and told me-- tried to give me scolding--
because I no go see the girl. And he told me I better go up Kapailoa
and see Mary, my future wife--because they knew already I was planning to marry.
So I went see her. Then talk to her some more and she got well.
And I think that's how that happened--that's how I met her, see?
Carr . . . : Okay. Now, what island was this on?
Trochez : This island of Oahu. .
Carr . . . : Oahu. So you had moved from Kauai?
Trochez : I had come from Kauai, yeah.
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : And I was over here...Kauai...I came 1911 to Waialua from Kauai.
And this was 1916 already, see? When we got married, see?
Carr . . . : So you got married--1916?
Trochez : 1916. December 23.
Carr . . . : Then where did you go to live--married?
Trochez : I had a little house prepared--plantation house--they had made me a little house--
plantation. All the house like this, yeah?
Carr . . . : Did you live in a house on the plantation before you were married?
Trochez : Yeah, yeah--I was a foreman--I was a supervisor.
Carr . . . : You were a supervisor.
Trochez : Yeah, I was supervisor on the plantation there in Waialua. .
Carr . . . : Did you tell the manager of the plantation that you were going to get married?
Trochez : Oh, yeah, sure, yeah.
Carr . . . : Did you have to make any special arrangements in the plantation
because you were going to get married?
Trochez : No, I just say few days I was going to be off--they put another man in my place.
Carr . . . : Oh.
Trochez : Then we went...I had gone to town to buy furniture-- to get furniture ready.
Some little things we had to buy, in Honolulu. Then we had chairs,
and pictures and bed and everything, see. We used to sleep on wooden beds
in the old days. I wanted. we going to have spring beds, see?
And then, we came home, we came back and then I went Kawailoa again see her--
I used to go see her every Saturday, almost every time. Until we were married.
And the day we got married, we... the church was very close to us -
something like here--very close. So we walked to the church.
But was raining--heavy rain. We had to get umbrellas and everything--
over to the church. And then came home and then. '.we rented a little old Ford
from Japanese in Haleiwa. And then to our house--to my father's house.
Carr . . . : Did you have a little party? Was there a party for the wedding?
Trochez : Yeah, yeah. There was a party--at her house. Andafter that we went to my place.
That's when we hired the little car. And we spend the whole night over there
by dancing and all kind.
Carr . . . : Oh, so it was a party with music?
Trochez : Music and roast pig, yeah. We had roast pig at our house and her house we had.
..different way you call, not roast.
Carr . . . : Was it Puerto Rican music ?
Trochez : Puerto Rican music, yeah.
Carr . . . : Who played?
Trochez : The name of the man was Nadio Vera.
Carr . . . : How many people were making the music?
Trochez : Two. Get cuatro and the guitar, that's all. Two people.
Carr . . . : Were there a lot of Puerto Ricans who could play cuatro in those days?
Trochez : Yeah, they have..right there they had Nadio, had Estafano, Madera who was my
godfather,and they had some more over there that played. Plenty musicians.
Carr . . . : Did you get any wedding gifts?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : In those days did people give...?
Trochez : No, I don't recollect anything like that.
Carr . . . : Then you went to your own house on Waialua plantation?
Trochez : For the party-my father's house--but to live, my own house.
Carr . . . : Did the plantation give you any time off for your wedding?
Trochez : Few days, yeah, few days. Because I was a supervisor they give me few days off, see.
Carr . . . : What was the name of the church where you got married?
Trochez : St. Michael.
Carr . . . : Did you have to pay for the wedding?
Trochez : You have to buy the paper and I think the godfather gave some money to the priest,
I think. Not the novio--the godfather, I think.
Carr . . . : And you had to get a license to get married...
Trochez : Oh, yes.
Carr . . . : Where did you get the license?
Trochez : From the judge.
Carr . . . : Where was the judge ?
Trochez : Haleiwa.
Carr . . . : In Haleiwa. Did you have to pay for that license?
Trochez : Yeah, I think was $2.50.
Carr . . . : When you went back to work, then what did Maria do?
Trochez : I think she stayed home. Stay home, cook--learn how to cook, I think.
Carr . . . : Well, Maria probably knew how to take care of the house.
Trochez : Oh, yes, yes she did. She did.
Carr . . . : Now, you lived next to your father?
Trochez : Next. Right next.
Carr . . . : Was he working on the Waialua plantation, too?
Trochez : Yeah, he was.
Carr . . . : What did he do?
Trochez : He was a ditch man. Ditch man is a man that distributes the waters and
goes around check out the waters.
Carr . . . : Did you, the son, did you make more money than your father?
Trochez : Oh, yeah. That's because I was a supervisor--I make $35 a month.
My father only make about $26.
Carr . . . : Did anybody else from the family work on Waialua plantation?
Trochez : Two of my brothers. But part-time, not steady. They was very young, eh?
Carr . . . : Now, you went to school 'til you were almost 17--how about your brothers?
Trochez : My brothers, they went more, I think, because they started to go school
from they was five years old. Me, I start when I was ten, eh?
Carr . . . : Did any of you boys finish high school?
Trochez : Well, let's see. I had one boy--the baby went to college.
Carr . . . : No, I mean your brothers--the boys in that family.
Trochez : No, no, no.
Carr . . . : How 'bout the girls?
Trochez : I don't think so, I don't think so.
Carr . . . : How many sisters did you have?
Trochez : Eight. You mean all the sisters all together?
Carr . . . : Yeah. Well, who are here in Hawaii.
Trochez : In Hawaii...well, in Hawaii was six.
Carr . . . : About how old were they when they married?
Trochez : Carmen Julia, was about 14 years .
Carr . . . : Did she marry a Puerto Rican? Carmen Julia did she marry.
Trochez : Puerto Rican, yeah.
Carr . . . : And how 'bout the other girls--did they marry Puerto Ricans?
Trochez : All married Puerto Ricans except the last one. She married a Portugese.
Carr . . . : And how old were they--the girls--when they got married?
Trochez : Very youngish.
Carr . . . : Very young. Okay.
Trochez : Could be some 16, some 15--1 don't know exactly.
Carr . . . : And how about your brothers, did they marry Puerto Rican girls?
Trochez : My brothers...all Puerto Rican.
Carr . . . : All Puerto Rican girls. Okay. The people they married,
did they meet them on the same plantation-- at Waialua?
Trochez : No. Different--some different. Some different plantations.
Not only at Waialua. Waialua was only me.
Carr . . . : Was it the custom or the tradition to go visiting Puerto Ricans
on the other plantations? How did they meet the girls they married--
how did the girls meet the boys that they married?
Trochez : They walked--they traveled. There was a train from Honolulu to Kahuku. eh?
They ride the train. they get off on the plantations, eh? .
Carr . . . : Okay. Were there parties that they went to? Did they go to church,
did they go to parties where they met other young people?
How did they meet other young people?
Trochez : I think they go direct to the house and meet them.
Carr . . . : Well, it sounds like a lot of Puerto Ricans knew other Puerto Ricans
on the different plantations.
Trochez : Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, sure they.knew everybody almost.
Carr . . . : You think that you all knew each other in those days?
Trochez : Well, not all but most. I used to travel myself from plantation to plantation.
And so did the boys--the boys they go all over.
Carr . . . : Were the girls allowed to go visiting, too, the way the boys were?
Trochez : Not the girls--the boys.
Carr . . . : Only the boys.
Trochez : Only the boys, yeah. The girls stationary. (laughter)
Carr . . . : So the girls could only hope to marry the people who came to that plantation visiting?
Okay. The girls, did they work at all before they married? On the plantation?
Trochez : Of my sisters, only one I remember that worked.
Carr . . . : And what was your family's attitude--your father and mother--
what did they think about girls marrying young?
Trochez : Our daughters?
Carr . . . : Well, no, not you and Maria but your sisters. Did your parents say anything
about the girls marrying so young?
Trochez : No, no. They okay--they had so many kids they was glad to take some away.
Carr . . . : I can believe that--this is a practical attitude. Did the girls go to live
at other plantations after they married?
Trochez : Yeah, they had to, you know, because their husbands, eh?
Carr . . . : And did your brothers go to work at other plantations or did they stay at Waialua?
Trochez : Well, by the time they got married they was away already.
Carr . . . : They were already?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : Were they working on plantations or were they doing other jobs?
Trochez : Other jobs. Some was in the telephone company, Hawaiian Electric,
and some other places, some other jobs.
There were none on the plantations already.
Carr . . . : How did they get those jobs?
Trochez : Well, they applied for them--those days was easy to get a job. Oh, yes. In those days,
if a fellow collect seven or eight or nine or ten men, he could go to another
plantation and represent himself and the ten men--he would be the supervisor
for those same men. So, sort or labor--labor shortage in those days--
why immigrating those people to...that was the case. Plenty people became foremans
on the plantation-- they bring the crowds with them. That's true fact.
Carr . . . : Yes. Now, your you know why they decided to go for other kinds of jobs.?
Trochez : Money. Their pay--their salaries--was higher.
Carr . . . : Did they learn things on the plantation that were useful in those other jobs?
Trochez : No, I don't think so. They just load cane on the cars and cut cane and put water.
The other jobs need some other training.
Carr . . . : Did they get job training? On the job, they got training, with those other companies?
Trochez : Oh, yeah, sure they apply for the job and they start from the bottom--
start from the bottom, eh? Different little jobs here--cleaning their place maybe
--and they learn and they work up. They start from scrap, eh?
Carr . . . : How big was your family? Did you know any cousins did you have cousins?
Did you have aunts and uncles?
Trochez : Oh, yes, we knew. Yes, we knew, we had cousins, uncles, yeah.
Carr . . . : Did you get together with these aunts and uncles and cousins from time to time?
Trochez : Well, right here in Hawaii we had only one uncle. He used to live with us in ?
And he went to the'mainland--which he's deceased now.
That was my mother's brother. And then we had a brother from my father--he too is
deceased in the mainland--they all died in the mainland.
moved to the mainland, but later years--in the 1918 or 1919. Cousins--we had.
I had a cousin that he was a detective .
Carr . . . : Do you remember his name?
Trochez : John Trochez. That's the fellow--the first kidnap case in Hawaii--this Fukunaga--
he was telling me something-he was the man that pick the murderer up--
the one they been execute. John Trochez--he's deceased, too.
Carr . . . : Did you have any through marriage, you had one Portuguese brother-in-law?
Trochez : one.
Carr . . . : Through the cousins or anybody else, was there a connection with any other
nationalities or ethnic groups?
Trochez : I don't know. Yeah, could be but not very much. Yeah, I no used to mingle
with people too much--never used to mingle too much. But the family,
yeah, but--I don't think those things came out. I don't think so.
Carr . . . : You did have enough brothers and sisters and then
how about let's start talking about your children. How many did you have?
Trochez : Nine.
Carr . . . : Nine children. Can you give me their names and birthdays, please?
Trochez : Right here is the first one--Bernice. She'll be 60 next month--the 5th.
And she was born 1918.
Carr . . . : Who was the second child
Trochez : Margaret.
Carr . . . : Margaret?
Trochez : Yes.
Carr . . . : When?
Trochez : June 10, 1919. Then came Isabelle--that would be 1921. November 5.
Then will be Peter--February 22,1923. Then comes Daniel--no, Hattie.
Carr . . . : So Hattie came before Daniel--Hattie came after Peter? .
Trochez : And then after Hattie, Daniel.
Carr . . . : Okay, what was. Hattie's birthday?
Trochez : June 11, 1924. And then Daniel. He came April 18, 1926. Then came Andy, August 12, 1930.
Then came Johnny, June 24, 1933. Then came Leonard, November 6, 1935.
Carr . . . : Were you living on Waialua plantation all this time while the children...
Trochez : No, no, no.
Carr . . . : No?
Trochez : This one here and Margaret--born Waialua. The rest Kahuku.
Carr . . . : Okay. So you moved to Kahuku. What year?
Trochez : 1921.
Carr . . . : 1921. Alright. why did you leave Waialua?
Trochez : That's a hard question. Just because I like come to Kahuku.
Carr . . . : Can you remember what it was about Kahuku that may be more attractive
or why you would come to Kahuku?
Trochez : We had some family here--cousins and-family.
Carr . . . : Did your father move too or...
Trochez : No. He came after--few months after, he came. He moved, too, and her father, too.
They all moved here. After I move, they all move and plenty more Puerto Ricans come
over here. They all move.
Carr . . . : Is that why there are so few Puerto Ricans now in Waialua?
You brought them all over here to Kahuku. Were there other Puerto Ricans
here in Kahuku before you came?
Trochez : Oh, plenty.
Carr . . . : Plenty? Oh, yeah, you said you had some cousins here. I should have asked,
were there plenty? Okay, there were plenty of Puerto Ricans over here.
Would you say 12 families?
Trochez : Oh, more than that.
Carr . . . : More than that? 1921? There were more than 12 families.
Trochez : Oh, yes, more than 12. And in 1921--that's when the new ones came, too.
They had plenty Puerto Ricans here one time. More than 12 families.
Carr . . . : Okay. Can you remember any of the family names of those Puerto Ricans?
Trochez : But they all died--they all gone already, most. I think everybody's gone--
the ones I telling you. Was here. We have children from those fellows
but the old people go already.
Carr . . . : Yeah, but I'm just interested in the names because than I. ..
Trochez : Of even dead?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : Oh, well, there was Chete. How you say that in Spanish? Machete Torres.
Carr . . . : That was his nickname?
Trochez : No, no. You put Joe Rodriguez .
Carr . . . : No, no. Any of the Puerto Rican names--you know, of the Puerto Ricans who were here.
Yes, so Rodriguez. ..and Torres.
Trochez : And Vidual. -What was Nunez name?
Carr . . . : Was that Baez?
Trochez : No, no.
Carr . . . : No. Okay.
Trochez : But her father was living here, too. Caraballo--Pancho Caraballo--Frank Caraballo.
Had plenty.
Carr . . . : Well, we can come back to that another time--we can try to remember some more.
That's all right. Okay. Were the Puerto Rican women working on this plantation--
were they working in the fields-- in the Kahuku...
Trochez : Had a few, had a few working. Not too many.
Carr . . . : How 'bout the children--were more of them in school or more of them working?
Trochez : Well, I think they had more in school. .
Carr . . . : Okay. Were there any good medical facility--did they have a hospital?
Trochez : Yes. Kahuku always had a hospital. Always. Since 1891.
When the plantation was started, they had a hospital right away.
Carr . . . : Do you remember ever needing the doctor or the hospital?
Did you ever need any medical help for yourself?
Trochez : Not in those days, no. We no get sick in those days.
start to get sick after 1946, I think, no.
Carr . . . : How 'bout the children? Did the children have any particular illness--
did they have the childhood diseases? Like chicken pox and mumps?
Did the children have that?
Trochez : Yeah, that they have, yeah, sure. I had one boy with meningitis.
And he was saved--they save him-- his life. That's the boy born in 1933--John.
Carr . . . : So he was saved here on the plantation?
Trochez : The doctors worked hard because he was gone already.
You not only talking about the dead but you talking about of any time, yeah?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : Oh, we been in hospital plenty times. She was in hospital plenty times--operation.
I went through some operations, too--my head, inside here--
had something burn in my throat, they went take 'em out.
When she had a lump then she went for--what you call that?--
Carr . . . : A tumor?
Trochez : No, no. Was...
Carr . . . : Your thyroid?
Trochez : Thyroid, yes. She was...
Carr . . . : Goiter.
Trochez : And me, I was something here in my throat. And then cut my back--
take out my lung behind. We went hospital. Then I had my heart attack,
heart attack 1940--I went to hospital, stayed two-three weeks.
Only I thought you was talking about...
Carr . . . : Well, no...Yeah, we were talking about back then, but if any time at all--
the medical care. Because why I ask you is what you think of the medical care
that you got--do you think that it was good...
Trochez : Sure, oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Kahuku. Good doctors. Many kind operations...
they operate right here in Kahuku. Anything.
Carr . . . : You say this is the Kahuku Hospital or the Kahuku Planation Hospital?
Trochez : It used to be the Kahuku Plantation--now is not sure. Because Kahuku is folded up.
Carr . . . : So now it's called the North Shore Hospital. Okay. That's a bit of history there.
The name changed. Alright. The school for the children in Kahuku--
now we're going to talk about your children. How was school for your children?
Did your children go to elementary school?
Trochez : Elementary school but none graduated--only...No, for elementary school? Yeah, go.
Carr . . . : Now, how many of the children graduated high school.
Trochez : Three.
Carr . . . : Three. Did you tell me that those were your three youngest ones?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : Which three graduated high school?
Trochez : Well, Leonard, Isabelle, Hattie and Johnny, no?
Carr . . . : Yeah.
Trochez : Four.
Carr . . . : Four graduated? Very good. Okay. Now, why didn't Bernice--Bernice is your first born--
why didn't she graduate?
Trochez : She had to stay home to help the mother.
Carr . . . : At what age did Bernice get married?
Trochez : 18 1/2
Carr . . . : 18 1/2 Did she have a job before she got married?
Trochez : Yeah. She used to work for this houses. ..little jobs in the houses,
people's houses. But she got paid for that, I think.
Carr . . . : Yes. Okay. Did your other daughters--Isabelle and Hattie--
did they have a job before they got married?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : So, they went from school to marriage?
Trochez : Well, they stay home few years, I think.
Carr . . . : Okay. I'm just trying to find out, you know, what the practice was.
Did girls usually marry right after school?
Trochez : Yeah, I know what you mean, yeah.
Carr . . . : Margaret worked? Did Margaret work? Did your daughters marry boys from Kahuku?
Trochez : Hattie married a Kahuku boy--only Hattie, I think.
Carr . . . : Did your girls marry Puerto Ricans or other ethnic groups?
Trochez : Portuguese--all the nationalities. All mix up.
One marry a Chinese. Portuguese, Chinese.
Carr . . . : These are your girls? One married Chinese?
Trochez : Spanish--she marry Spanish. Portuguese. Chinese Half Chinese.
Carr . . . : Alright. How 'bout the boys? Did they marry Puerto Rican girls?
Trochez : One only one.
Carr . . . : One married a Puerto Rican girl. Alright. And what did the others marry? .
Trochez : One Mexican.
Carr . . . : Is she Mexican from here or Mexican from Mexico?
Trochez : Mainland.
Carr . . . : Mainland girl.
Trochez : One is a French--one is marry a French--Cajun--from Louisiana--Cajuns, eh?
They're French. And the other is, I think she's German--Swedish-German, .,
I think. The other boy.
Carr . . . : All those girls are from the mainland?
Trochez : Yeah, all mainland. And one a Puerto Rican girl.
Carr . . . : Was the Puerto Rican girl from here?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : She was all Puerto Rican? Not just half--she was all Puerto Rican?
Trochez : Pure, pure.
Carr . . . : Okay. Did any of your children go to college?
Trochez : Just the last--the baby, Leonard--went only two years--he was the only.
Carr . . . : What was he interested in?
Trochez : Some kind numbers--I don't know what they call that. Chemistry? I think so.
He went to Stockton, but he quit. He went to college over there. Stockton.
And then he changed his mind, went on the road. He wants medicines...
that's where he met this girl. His wife right now. A French girl.
On the road, we call it on the road. She was doing the same thing.
Carr . . . : So, where do your children live now?
Trochez : The state or the cities?
Carr . . . : Anyplace--whichever you want to--yeah. The city, the state, it doesn't matter.
Trochez : One lives in San Pedro--that's in Los Angeles.
Carr . . . : Wait, I'll ask you them by name, okay. Where is Margaret living now?
Trochez : San Pedro.
Carr . . . : Where does Isabelle live?
Trochez : Concord, California. -
Carr . . . : Where does Peter live?
Trochez : Livermore, that's in California.
Carr . . . : And Hattie?
Trochez : Hattie? Hayward
Carr . . . : Daniel?
Trochez : In Paramount, Los Angeles.
Carr . . . : Andy?
Trochez : Andy, Oakland, California.
Carr . . . : Johnny?
Trochez : San Lorenzo.
Carr . . . : And Leonard?
Trochez : In Louisiana, New Orleans.
Carr . . . : And Bernice is home with you now... Now, why did all the children leave Hawaii?
Trochez : Well, some was in the Army--when they came up from the Army they came to California
and right there they let them go. And they stayed there. And some,
they they went places and ,they like those places. So they went get better jobs.
Carr . . . : They all have better jobs?
Trochez : Well, most of them--they all have their home. Most of them the have their home
and they got jobs.
Carr . . . : Do you think they have better jobs than they could have gotten here? In Hawaii?
Trochez : Gee, I don't think they could get a job over here. They might have--I don't know.
I can hardly answer that one. I think they did better by going down there.
Carr . . . : Do you think that there has been a big change, then, from when you were young
and there were so many jobs available and now,
you think that we don't have so many jobs here?
Trochez : Oh, yeah, sure--there's a big difference. Oh, yes .
Carr . . . : Do you think, maybe, it's because the young people our sons and daughters
don't want plantation jobs?
Trochez : Have some cases oh they run from the sugar cane. Oh, yes .
Carr . . . : Did you want your children to take jobs on the plantation?
Or did you want them to go look for different kinds of jobs?
Trochez : I would like to see them get another job. Which they have now.
Because over here was hard--was pretty hard here.
Now, maybe now...I think right now is little hard over here to get other job.
Carr . . . : Mr. Trochez, how did Puerto Ricans get along with the other groups on the plantation?
Trochez : Well, in those days it was pretty rough. Was rough. So many ethnic groups.
Like the Puerto Ricans in Kekaha, they fought. I don't know how get started--
I remember one day that this Puerto Ricans was piling bricks and pieces of lumber
and kind--putting them all together. And the Koreans--the other side, too.
Then, all after see these fellas shouting--hitting themselves all around--
oh, it was a mess. Cause the Koreans say that they need twice the number
of Puerto Ricans can fight them, and the Puerto Ricans got mad went and pau.
Acabaron con ellos. ..The Koreans thought the Puerto Ricans couldn't attack them.
So they did attack them-- the ones that was there. And that time they did fight.
Carr . . . : Did the plantations that you worked on--you worked on Kauai
and you worked on Waialua and Kahuku--was there trouble like that often?
Trochez : Yeah, in those days, way back before the '20's. After that there's very little.
But before the '20's the most was before the war, I think--before
the first World War--which was in 1918. Before that had plenty trouble;
after that, not so much. And then very little. Faded away.
But in those days was very bad, very bad.
Carr . . . : Was any kind of ethnic worker paid more than another one on the plantations?
For the same kind of job? .
Trochez : Yeah, I think that was wrong, too, because I think the Puerto Ricans
was paid more than the Japanese and the other fellas--they was paid
a little bit more. I remember that. Somebody told you already about that?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : Yeah, they was paid higher. I don't know if they say because they work --
they produce more--the Puerto Ricans. which I don't know myself. That could be, no?
Some of those fellows. ..Japanese are hard workers, you know, but when they get a
chance they can take off, too. So it was a turmoil. In fact, poor Chinese
had bad time. Sometimes these fellows go in the morning and tie these Chinese
from the queues, you know, and two Chinese together, and they'd crack the whip behind
-- I don't think they hit 'em with the whip because those whips would cut them.
But I think they crack 'em near to them and poor Chinese had to go, eh?
But they no go run away because one was tied with the other.
Carr . . . : Was that supposed to be a joke?
Trochez : No that was true, that we see with our eyes, we see that.
Carr . . . : Who was tied. ..
Trochez : The rich mans come from another... in Kauai --Kekaha-- they come from Waimea.
That's where they get the police. Come from policemans. Poor Chinese, I don't know.
Carr . . . : And they would tie the Chinese together by their pigtails?
By those braids they used to wear in those days.
Trochez : Pigtails, yeah, yeah.
Carr . . . : Was that because the Chinese were accused of doing something? Were they the Chinese?
Trochez : They never turn out to work.
Carr . . . : Oh. Just to make them go to work.
Trochez : Yeah, because they stayed home, see?
Carr . . . : Terrible. Did the luna--the foreman--or did the police
ever come into a Puerto Rican's house?
Trochez : No, not Puerto Ricans'. Chinese, maybe, yeah. See, what happened one time in Kekaha
was that this Japanese- salian pa' fuera they go out in the street, eh?--half naked.
And they take a pee anyplace, eh? And they half naked-- they get one towel.
And one day, one Puerto Rican--was in Kekaha--had one big belt.
He pull off his belt--this Japanee was naked on the road. He went bend 'em up
with the strap--, lo quemo He whip 'em. So from there on, kinda slack, eh?
Carr . . . : Why did the Puerto Rican whip the...
Trochez : 'Cause he was naked--when the Rican came. Walking through the street.
Carr . . . : Oh, he walked through the Puerto Rican camp?
Trochez : Yeah--the houses.
Carr . . . : Did the Puerto Ricans know that.. .
Trochez : That was their style.
Carr . . . : ...that that was their style--the Japanese style?
Trochez : I don't think so..that's the only excuse they had. The Puerto Ricans did say that.
That's how they got free, I think. No more case. Case closed.
Carr . . . : Oh, so he went to court?
Trochez : I think so. Because he went bend him up with that belt.
Carr . . . : Now, do you know why the Japanese used to walk around like that?
Trochez : Well, it's their style. They swim together--they bathe together.
I used to bathe together with one family there...everybody naked.
In fact, that one lady was here, she just had visit..
The other day she left to go Waipahu. And I was friend her husband...
her husband was friend to me, but he was a boy in those days and I was a boy.
And we lived near--the father from this boy--we lived near to each other.
So they get hot water bath, we no get, see? So I go take a bath with them.
Us boys, eh? And girls, and the old lady, too--everybody inside there. All naked.
Carr . . . : Did you tell your family that you went and you bathed family-style with the Japanese?
Trochez : Oh, yeah, told my father and mother, yeah.
Carr . . . : Did your mother and father object?
Trochez : No, no, they agreed because I had the bathe--they agree because over there
get hot water and everything free, eh?
Carr . . . : Yes. Okay. Did anybody else in your family...
Trochez : No, only me.
Carr . . . : ...accept that style? You were the only one who accepted? ...
Trochez : Yeah, only me, only me that I know.
Carr . . . : With all the other ethnic groups around who had their own traditions,
their own customs--did you pick up any other traditions? Did your mother
start cooking other kind of food besides Puerto Rican food?
Did you do anything that was different that you learned with these other groups ?
Trochez : Their cooking we all learned but they learned from us, because we make pamplines.
We used to make this kind surullos --flour, eh? You bake 'em up
and then you roast 'em on the ashes--not the ashes the...
Carr . . . : The coals?
Trochez : Yeah, the coals...how they call that stuff? Anyhow, kiawe wood.
And you would just lop the flour on--bend 'em, eh? And you make surullos.
Six inches long maybe and then you put 'em on top there and roast 'em.
You roast 'em over the braza .So they learned that. And then we make pamplines
everytime you fry, eh? Well, the other people learned that. And I think
they was making all around. But when they come to our place they eat with us, eh?
But as from them, I don't think we learned nothing.
Carr . . . : Did you go to your friends' house--like the Japanese friend that you bathed with--
did you eat at his house?
Trochez : Yeah, yeah, I eat over there. And when I was a kid I drank sake with them.
Carr . . . : Did your family know how to make rum when they came from Puerto Rico?
Did they know how to make rum?
Trochez : Rum. No, I don't think so, no we never. But we make okolehau after that--
Iong time after that-- we make okolehau. I make, myself.
Carr . . . : Can you tell us for the record what was okolehau?
Trochez : Okolehau--we make 'em from rice--fermented rice. we make one mash--
mash they call that?--the big. .. What they call that? Mash...Hops.
But the whole contents. Is a mash, anyhow and put stuff in there.
Put potatoes inside, you put-- watch out, this not going in.
Carr . . . : Listen, we might as well give the recipe. Why did people make okolehau?
Trochez : Drink. And some fella like money. If they want to make money, they sell.
We had drink 'em right there, when they stay coming down--I drink right there.
Carr . . . : People could get drunk on it, right?
Trochez : Oh,it was hard-- If you don't look out, you died. The men went pass out!
Carr . . . : You could die from it?
Trochez : If you drink too much. I suppose when making it, I get drunk right there,
by just tasting it, because that thing keeps on dripping.
And then, strong. The next day I cut, they pick me up. In Kahuku,
in Kahuku we was making .Oh, what stories, boy, son of a gun.
Carr . . . : Well, that's the way life was, right?
Trochez : Bootlegger days.
Carr . . . : Was there a lot of okolehau--did it have to be bootlegged?
Was it against the law to sell it?
Trochez : It was against the law, but still, I think well, didn't see for sell. Make it at home.
Carr . . . : Yeah, I think what they call okolehau that we can buy in the store is a little
different from that nice thing you used to make at home. You know?
I don't think it has quite the kick. Did you know any of the early immigrants--
the ones who came with your family when you were a child--the ones who came
This is a continuation of the second interview on December 29,
1977 with Mr. Trochez.
Carr . . . : Mr. Trochez, we were talking about the health of the people who came on that first
migration--the first year--1901. Did you ever know anybody from those early
mmigrants who had health problems, like going insane? That kind of health problem?
Trochez : Well, not way back early as 1901--til that date I don't remember.
But in 1933 we had one man went insane right here in Kahuku.
That's the only case I know about insane.
Carr . . . : Do you remember what happened to him?
Trochez : I don't know but he got crazy.
Carr . . . : Did the family take care of him or was he put in a hospital?
Trochez : He was living in town--in Honolulu--alone. Then he came to Kahuku to visit,
I think he came. Visit his son--he had a son over here.
And I think they took him to hospital. But he died--from that he died.
Never left to come home after that. was related to me..
Carr . . . : Do you remember the family talking about the case?
Trochez : No. Then they went away--took him to Honolulu-- I didn't see him no more
and I hadn't seen him since we left Puerto Rico--in Puerto Rico I saw him.
Until this...the fella was 23 years and I was 8. ..until he came here to Kahuku .
Carr . . . : Can you think of any reason why he may have...
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : ...become that ill? Do you remember--we talked about Puerto Ricans
and fights between different ethnic groups and so on--do you remember,
were Puerto Ricans ever accused of trying to start unions on the plantations?
That you worked on?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : Did the Puerto Ricans ever have problems with any group
trying to start a union on the plantations?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : Did any Puerto Ricans get into trouble with the law for stealing on the plantation?
Trochez : I think so.
Carr . . . : On the plantation?
Trochez : No, not on the plantation but probably some other places.
Carr . . . : Did you know of any people who wanted to go back to Puerto Rico?
Trochez : Yes. Yes, there was quite a few and some did go.
But few did go to Puerto Rico from Hawaii.
Carr . . . : Do you know if they went to stay?
Trochez : That I don't know.
Carr . . . : Did the plantation have rules about cleaning the houses or anything--
remember, you told me the first house had so many cockroaches?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : Did things change on the different plantations?
Trochez : Oh, yeah. A lot. Plenty. Things are very different now.
Carr . . . : Were.they different in the '20's already? Was there better sanitation
or was it about the same?
Trochez : Ah, in the '20's?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : A little better than 1901, yeah, but today they are much better than 1920.
Carr . . . : Did you, as a resident on the plantation, did your family have any rules
to obey about what you could keep in the house or what you could plant,
or anything like that?
Trochez : About planting--this might change but...keeping things in the house
they had certain regulations that you had to obey.
That applies to sanitation and--most to sanitation.
Carr . . . : Was the plantation responsible for picking up your garbage
or did you have to get rid of it yourself?
Trochez : No. The city and county picks up the rubbish. You mean today?
Carr . . . : Well,no, starting back there. I'm trying to find out what other conditions were like.
So back in the 1920's, ..I mean. when you and Maria set up house keeping.
Trochez : Oh, no. There was no such thing like collecting rubbish. I don't know
what became of them. I don't know. We throw 'em away anyplace I think.
Oh, in those days you could burn. Today you can't. That's the difference, see?
You could get rid of them by fires. Today you can't do that.
But today they pick them up.
Carr . . . : Did any of your children ever become--other than the time that one of the boys
had meningitis--was there ever any other case or any illness that
Kahuku Hospital was not enough? Did you ever have to take the children
to Honolulu for treatment?
Trochez : No Everything was done in Kahuku.
Carr . . . : Everything. Okay. Did you have, in the 1920's and the '30's--did you have cousins
or brothers on the other islands or were you all on the same island?
Trochez : We have a few cousins in the other islands.
Carr . . . : Did you stay in touch with those cousins as the years went by in the '2O's, the '3O's?
Trochez : Yeah but some, yeah, but not all, though. With some.
Carr . . . : Did the plantation provide a place where you could have meetings in the '2O's,
in the '3O's -- so that you could have meetings for special purposes?
Trochez : They did, they did have, yeah. They did.
Carr . . . : Was there a movie house?
Trochez : Yes.
Carr . . . : In town or on the plantation?
Trochez : Right here; right here in Kahuku.
Carr . . . : In the plantation?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : Okay. What kind of movies did they show?
Trochez : Regular movies--Westerns--regular movies.
Carr . . . : Did you belong to a church? In the '2O's and '3O's? Did you go to church?
Trochez : Well, yes, Catholic church, yeah. Right here.
Carr . . . : Do you still go to church?
Trochez : I don't, she does. But she can't go now, she's sick. So she don't.
Carr . . . : So Bernice goes now. Okay.
Trochez : But I pay my weekly dues to the church. Every week. Donation.
Carr . . . : Does the priest come to the house?
Trochez : For Holy Communion -- for her.
Carr . . . : For Maria?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : As you and Maria were raising your children, nine children,
did you have any rules about their helping in the house?
Trochez : Oh, yeah, sure. Yes.
Carr . . . : What kinds of jobs did the boys do?
Trochez : The boys cleaned the yard and raised some dogs and.. I think that's all--raise dogs
and...One time they had a little horse--they had a horse one time.
They been dress him up one day. There was a big rain coming--rain was coming--
and then I was inside--look outside and they had the horse behind there.
This was not too long ago. And when I see this thing all covered up, I thought,
What the hell is that? It was the horse--they had all raincoats and mats
and everything else was on top of that. The rain coming down.
Carr . . . : Did you raise any chickens or anything like that?
Trochez : Yes. Right here in Kahuku--the next house. Ducks, chickens--not pigs.
Carr . . . : Who took care of those animals? Maria used to take care of them? Okay.
Did the girls have any jobs to do--what kind of work did the girls help with?
Trochez : The house and sweep the yard.
Carr . . . : Was this any different from when you were growing up and your sisters had jobs
and your brothers had jobs?. Was this any different with your children
or was it the same?
Trochez : No, I think was better when I was raising my children because--more control,
more boss, eh? Brothers and sisters is a little different.
Better with my children.
Carr . . . : You mean you had more control over your children
than your father had over his children?
Trochez : No, no, no. Me. That's a brother to the other ones--I had no control over...
Carr . . . : Oh. No. What I meant was,
did you run the house the same way that your father ran his house?
Trochez : In a way, yes. Sure.
Carr . . . : Did Maria have any...well, I'll ask Maria later. Did you have any ambitions
for your children-- things that you thought they should grow up to do
or the kinds of work they should do? Anything like that?
Trochez : Well, the ambition I had is that they can find a job qnd find a good wife
and husband--get married and find a good job, see? That's the only ambition.
For their good, eh?
Carr . . . : Yeah. When you were a child, in your home,
how did you say good morning and good night to your parents?
Trochez : Well we said Mama and Papa. And "la bendicion".
Now we use good night and good morning.
Carr . . . : Did your children ask for la bendicion too, in the same way?
Yeah, yeah. But now, we use good morning, good night.
The modern way now. And that's true to our parents.
Carr . . . : Did your children all get baptised?
Trochez : Yeah, all.
Carr . . . : Were their godparents always Puerto Rican?
Trochez : One was Filipino--only one. One was Spanish.
Carr . . . : One was Spanish, One was Filipino? Okay. Did the godparents ever have anything
to say or did they help out with religious instruction for the children?
Trochez : I don't know. I can't remember that. No. They don't even come to the house.
Carr . . . : Did you develop a--like in Puerto Rico, you know, you have a compadre relationship.
Did you have this kind of relationship with these people?
Is that why they became the godparents?
Trochez : Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carr . . . : Did this relationship continue? Do you still have your compadres now?
Trochez : Yes, yes, yes.
Carr . . . : Would you mind naming a few of the people you consider your compadres now?
Trochez : Well, many are dead, eh? Mary Ortiz, she's alive but the husband died.
She's from Waipahu. Mary Ortiz and her brother was compadre to us--
with my sister Julia. And the other ones I think all died, eh?
Oh, yeah, my brother compadre to me, too.
Carr . . . : Yeah, I see. But, were any of your compadres your friends?
Were they just friends or were most of them, except for the...
Trochez : Yeah, some was only friends, you're right, yeah. And then we became compadres.
Carr . . . : Do you think of your children as Puerto Rican or as local people?
Trochez : Oh, boy.
Carr . . . : Hard questions, now, yeah?
Trochez : I think I think in both ways--Puerto Rican and local because.
That question was my children, eh?
Carr . . . : Yes, your own children--the nine children.
Would you consider them to be Puerto Rican...?
Trochez : Puerto Ricans, Puerto Ricans.
Carr . . . : Were any of your grandchildren born and raised in ,Hawaii?
Trochez : Grandchildren?
Carr . . . : Yes.
Trochez : Yes. Plenty, eh. Isabelle, Andy. Two families of the grandchildren born in Hawaii
and raised in Hawaii.
Carr . . . : Are any of these grandchildren still in Hawaii?
Trochez : We have only two in Hawaii. Andy's kids. Four for Andy.
Four from Andy and... . That's eight. . (note:4 from Andy, 4 from Isabell)
Carr . . . : Do the grandchildren Spanish?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : Do the grandchildren eat Rican food?
Trochez : Oh, yes, of course. Sure. They like it.
Carr . . . : How old are these grandchildren who were born and raised here?
Trochez : They all married.
Carr . . . : They're all married? Do they ever go to Puerto Rican dances or anything like that?
Trochez : No.
Carr . . . : In their circle of friends, do they have Puerto Rican friends?
Trochez : Well, that I don't - can't tell because they don't live here, they live outside.
I think they deal with the other ethnic groups.
Carr . . . : Would you say those children are more Puerto Rican-.
those grandchildren--are more Puerto Rican or local?
Trochez : Those ones, I think, local, those. They live over here, they raised right here;
they mingle with the Japanese, and Hawaiians--some are half Hawaiian,
some are half Portuguese.
Carr . . . : So that your grandchildren...some of your grandchildren are part Portuguese?
Trochez : Yeah, and Hawaiian.
Carr . . . : And through the spouses of your children, the grandchildren are also part Hawaiian?
Trochez : Part Hawaiian and part Portuguese and part Chinese.
Carr . . . : The rest of the grandchildren are on the mainland?
Trochez : Yeah.
Carr . . . : On the mainland, most of them are in California, right?
Do any of those grandchildren speak Spanish?
Trochez : No. They understand; they get a few words.
Carr . . . : Most Californians seem to. So those children would you say those grandchildren
are Puerto Rican, local or Californians?
Trochez : Californians--they live there, that's why.
Carr . . . : Do those grandchildren come to visit in Hawaii?
Trochez : Few of them have come, not very many, but some have come. They have come already.
Carr . . . : Do they like Hawaii when they come?
Trochez : They say yeah. I guess so. They say yeah--the swimming.
Carr . . . : How old are the ones who come--the grandchildren?
Are they also old enough to be married now, these grandchildren?
Trochez : Two are married, three married, four married. Maybe some married.
Five married. Six married, with a girl.
Carr . . . : Did they come when they were younger, when they were not married?
Trochez : Yeah,. some of them came, yeah. When they was tiny.
Carr . . . : Did any of those grandchildren from the mainland
ever say that they wanted to come to Hawaii to live?
Trochez : Not to me.
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