The
Following is from an e-mail request for herding advice that I received.
Hi
Dot,
We have corresponded before. I hope you remember me from Western Australia, and
can help us beginners over here.
In short we have a few GSDs starting herding training and have seen a fairly
problem develop in a few of them. It seems once they get their confidence, they
become hard to move/push off the stock (sheep). They start to ignore the rake
to
the extent that they push back on it to get 'their' way. While there is some
mouthing, they do not do not become aggressive, but handlers are stagnating at
this stage.
What is the best way to deal with this? We have others that have not gone
this
way, but they may have more respect for their handlers.
Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated.
Steph
****
Dear
Steph,
Zen
pen as well as lots of off stock obedience to develop better respect.
http://members.cox.net/gsdvominsel/zenpen.htm
What is the training set-up?
Dot
****
Hi
Dot,
Sorry to have taken so long to respond.
>Zen pen as well as lots of off stock obedience to develop better respect.
Thanks for that, should help.
>What is the training set-up?
I have 2 round yards, one small the other larger (25 yard diameter). As the
girls can not control the action in this yard they have not gone into larger
paddocks.
I have read the training screed too and noted some problems that may well be
contributing to the problem. Both handlers are too slow. One is an older lady;
the other is a young girl whom I am always telling to keep some action going.
She tends to turn in a very small circle, hence not moving the stock much at
all.
Both these dogs started out looking confident and well behaved (one is 7 or 8
years of age, the other under 2 years). At the start they balanced nicely and
moved off when their beginner handlers asked without a lot of problem.
After 3 or 4 training days, the younger one just 'changed' from one training to
the next totally ignoring her handler. The other has never had to do what
it is
told, so this is not totally unexpected.
I will get the girls both to read your training screed as well as do the zen
pen
exercise as the biggest problem is the girls can all but try and shovel the
dogs
off the stock with the rake (both grip, but have never caused any damage except
the sheep packing up in a corner). The sheep are heavy, and the action is not
real fast. It's just the dogs are not responding to pressure to move them off
the stock, are moving straight into the stock and not thinking of balancing, so
training is not just stagnating, but going backwards.
Shame it's not so easy to send a video, but I expect you have seen this same
problem, be allowed to develop, well before now.
Steph
****
Dear Steph,
I was suspecting slowness of the handler was a problem. Many beginning
dogs
don't "see the job" unless the stock in in motion, once it stops,
with some
dogs - even for a second- the dog no longer sees the job to be done and
becomes lost and the response to being lost is to grip. Once the stock
move
the dog says oh yeah, I remember the job now.
Beginning handlers often are not at the head of the stock leading the sheep.
They need to be there and set up a TRUE FETCH. Beginning dogs often
do not see the job unless the handler is truly leading the stock. And when they
don’t see the job, they get into trouble. Also, the sheep tend to behave better
and to break away less when the handler is in a true fetch
position.
ADVICE: Keep those handlers moving. Perhaps the pen is too small
for this
and they would do better in a larger area where they can get up some speed.
Don't let then stop to argue with the dogs. It only amplifies the problem
created by the handler going too slowly. If the dog starts to grip,
simply
speed up. Also, why walk backwards to watch for problems that are created
by the slowness at which one walks backwards. Walk forwards - with head
turned slightly backwards. Walk at a brisk pace.
Rakes are generally used in instinct testing and not much beyond (except in
some limited specialized situations)
Their purpose is to push out a dog of LOW KEENNESS and UNSURENESS ABOUT
WORKING STOCK is such a way that they won't quit. A dog quickly builds up
the keenness and sureness to the level at which the rake becomes unnecessary
as well as ineffective. For a dog of real low keenness, the rake may be
used for several sessions, but for the average herding dog, the first
session is it.
Problem with the rake:
*You want the dog to be working well off the stock, the rake cannot come
into play until the dog is way closer to the stock than he should be.
Thus,
it is not possible to correctly time a correction with a rake. You'll
never
get him out to where he should be with a rake.
*Pushing a dog out (as you described) is not as effective as banging the
implement on the ground in front of the dog.
*Allowing the dog to come in that close to be in rake range is allowing the
dog into a zone where he is much more excited and not thinking as clearly.
He reacts better to a correction when he is farther off
the stock.
For some dogs, they are in a stress zone when this close; and the stress
release is to grip.
ADVICE: Get rid of the rake. Substitute a long bamboo pole - as long as
you
can find. Tape a plastic bottle with a few pebbles in it to the end for
even greater effect. Have the handler work at keeping the dog out away
from
the sheep. The handler must actively work to create a zone of safety for
the sheep, a zone in which the dog is not allowed. Sheep will be calmer
once they realize the zone of safety exists. Dog will be calmer both
because sheep now are secure and also because he is not as excitable at that
distance out as he is close in. Remember to keep the stick pointed at the
ground and do a lot of banging on the ground. Holding the stick up or
parallel to the ground is telling the dog the gate is open to come in.
Keep
it down to tell the dog the gate is closed.
ADVICE: If dog is trying to out maneuver handler to get into sheep, don't let
handler go out away from sheep to get to dog. Have handler stay close to
sheep, circling in same direction as dog, keeping between sheep and dog.
Handler walks smaller circle than dog, so not only is it easier on handler,
but also is is harder for dog to out maneuver handler. Too many handlers
leave
their sheep to go after the dog. That far out, it is very easy for dog to
out maneuver handler and get to sheep. Handlers should always stay with
their sheep. If dog is out away from sheep then it is where it should be.
So just leave it alone and start leading the sheep somewhere.
ADVICE: Do lots of Zen Pen.
ADVICE: Haver them read all the articles on my website.
Dot
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