Vampire: The Masquerade Exchange ideas, questions and stories about Vampire: The Masquerade. 15 Post(s) on this Topic Subject: Antediluvian Ascension swordofsutekh - 08/10/2004 21:52:56 Does God actually exist in the World of Darkness? If so, then why would Set be allowed to acsend to godhood? There is a lot more bouncing around in my head, but I want to start off with only a couple of questions, because I know how massive this kind of discussion can become.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension Ghidzilla - 08/10/2004 22:28:39 - ghiddyz@hotmail.com Yes he does. He goes by the name 'Mithras'. Oh come on, I had to.... Ghidzilla

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension LordBob - 08/10/2004 23:13:54 - bobman64@sprynet.com God exists in the World of Darkness if you want him to. Personally, he does not exist in my interpretation of it, though Gehenna seemed to be very God heavy. If you are running a Wormwood style scenario, then he probably exists. In a scenario where Set or any other antediluvian achieves godhood, then God probably shouldn't.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension swordofsutekh - 08/10/2004 23:40:01 Alright. I am very much willing to go along with the idea of God not existing in the World of Darkness, but it raises more questions. Who cursed Caine? Who is responsible for the messangers that went to the Hunters? On that second question, you might want to note I know next to nothing about Hunter.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension gothik_knight - 08/11/2004 01:40:34 - gothik_knight@netzero.com For WW the Closest they have come to giving GOD a name would be the Unconcorded SUN, from Mokole', Exalted, and Hunter*from what i can tell* IF all the Werewolf *Spirit Gods and Tratic Forces are real*, then the BIG guy would be the Unconcured Sun alright. Unconcoured Sun in Exalted exalted the Solars, who became the HUNTERS in VtM. LUNA gave the Lunars their stuff, who waterdowned into Changing Breeds of WtA. The WYRM is basicly just DEATH, or a form of Underworld Thing. WEAVER is ORDER, basicly the Exalted Auto-something ville of the Alchemical Exalted, who later turns to just Humans and Technology. WYLD pure Chaos, as it always has been. Lunars living close to wyld had to change themselves so not to be effected by it as much. So basicly is the Unconcured Sun supports Solars, they support Hunters. hope that helps...

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension swordofsutekh - 08/11/2004 01:55:06 Except... Exalted has absolutely nothing to do with the World of Darkness. They cut the connection.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension Elisa_Thalaman - 08/11/2004 01:56:00 - jdoe001@attbi.com The One Above would allow Sutekh to attain g-dhood the same way he alllowed Lucifer and a third of the heavenly host to fall. It is his design. Besides if the One Above wanted to Sutekh to no longer be a dark g-d he would just create another week of sunlight which would devour the progenitor easily. Remember the One Above made Adam and Eve and they birthed Caine who he cursed. Caine Embraced the second generation and one of them Embraced Sutekh. Sutekh gains g-dhood but since he is a creation of the One Above he can undo him. Ashur wanted to Diablerize the One Above and he was the same generation as Sutekh. See where Ashur's neat idea lead him...

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension swordofsutekh - 08/11/2004 02:01:39 So can we assume that the other Egyptian gods are real? If Sutekh was allowed godhood, we could easily assume that some of the others would have reached the same pinnacle, or something akin to it.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension jahred - 08/11/2004 07:15:13 The backstory of Hunter: The messengers are angels of god (or a powerful diety, whatever you want really). They watched humanity suffer under the darkness and knew that if they didn't act humanity would be enslaved for all eternity. However, God has forbidden them to act directly (see D:tF) so they had to act through people to achieve their aims. The last time Angels reacted with humans were at least 10,000 years ago. So that is why the imbued are so.. wrong. Angels can't understand modern humans so instead of creating an army to fight the darkness. They have created a hoard of lone imbued with no common goal or plan. jahred - The Hierophant of Mithras; The God of War

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension Lost_Heretic - 08/11/2004 08:41:50 - lost.heretic@gmail.com Perhaps here is an explanation, though maybe not a good one. At first there was a single God, who created the earth in six days. On the seventh day he rested, to look over his creation. For a time, it was good. Caine was cursed, the first city was built and ruined and a second city was being created. Then came others, gods like him. He knew them, remembering how the hundreds had collaberated to create the universe in a burst of energy. But, they had failed their mission. Though they created stars and worlds, they did not know how to create life like God's. At first, God was kind and let them watch and learn from him. But, all was not well. Many of the gods seeked to steal this world from God. A war began, a battle on the earth's very surface. Many of the animals, plants and people were corrupted by the outsiders. In the final day of the first war, God spoke to Noah. Through him, life was saved on earth, but at a terrible cost. Weak from the battle, God could no longer speak to his people, only through Angels and other messengers could it be done. Time passed and the last of the gods came to Earth. God was powerless to stop them and they came down to the planet, gathering worshippers across the land. But, with thought and guidance, these religions were crushed and their gods broken. (I'm not sure if there is any details about the ascension to godhood, but I decided to throw in this) The Kindred Antediluvians soon learned of these lesser gods that walked the earth. Many of them, including the Norse and Greek gods, lay in a torpor-like state across the world. After assisting their Lord in one of the many battles against the gods, the Antediluvians were granted the knowledge that, if their blood was strong enough and they took in a soul of one of these gods, they could ascend to godhood. Gehenna is the final nights, not only for the earth, but the entire universe. It is a final battle between God and the lesser gods. It is Ragnarok. -Lost Heretic, The Bitter and Jaded Teen (Limited Edition!)

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension MrGonev5 - 08/11/2004 13:31:10 - mrgonejediknight@aol.com In my WoD...here is a God...but he long stopped caring. So while there was a God to Curse Caine(and that curse still stands) God has long given up on caring about Earth and the people on it...thus why the world has become so Dark... MrGone Vicissitude Infected Malkavian of the True Black Hand™

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension dhampir_kinfolk - 08/11/2004 14:09:26 No reason why the Antedeluvian's can't try to become gods when there's already a big "G" god in your universe. Without trying to start a religious flame war, God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." He didn't say there were no other gods, just that you shouldn't worship Them.

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension -D-GENNEXT- - 08/11/2004 15:02:59 Does god exist in my WoD? Yes. Do other gods exist in my WoD? Yes. Do they make their presence known or felt? Rarely. Let me explain... Since the WoD is a darker reflection of our own world, such things as god(s) and religion(s), mst exist to me. Religion is a guiding factor to over a billion people in the world today, why would I ignore such a factor in my games. God(s) do not rear their heads and interfere in everyday life... that's rediculous. Their agents are few and far between as well. By this I mean True Faithers. This is a numina that I do not take lightly. It's difficult at best for mortals to manifest one dot in it... let alone any supernatural creature who finds it nigh impossible in my games (in all my years of ST-ing, I've allowed 1 character to have True Faith... They finished the chronicle with a 2). Yet it's through True Faith that the various Gods make their presence felt. People wielding faith in the name of their deity and performing his/her will. I also allow for the fact that True Faith is not exclusive to Christians. The basic system works for a benchmark for the other religions. By the books, the average worshiper does not have nor will they ever have True Faith. They may have faith in god, but that extra is not possible. Even exceptional members of a religion might never manifest it. They describe True Faithers as the rare and exceptional individual. I took that to heart and creatures like vampires with True Faith are even rarer than that in my games... same applies to Werewolves too. So, yes... gods exist. No, they don't make guest appearances to smite stupid characters. -D-

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension Bloody_Brujah - 08/11/2004 15:55:23 - soulburn4204me@yahoo.com "So while there was a God to Curse Caine(and that curse still stands) God has long given up on caring about Earth and the people on it...thus why the world has become so Dark..." Great minds think alike. Thats exactly how I handle God in my chronicles. J. Black

Subject: Antediluvian Ascension MrGonev5 - 08/11/2004 16:10:00 - mrgonejediknight@aol.com <<Great minds think alike. Thats exactly how I handle God in my chronicles.>> Coolness..glad to know I'm not the only one..=) MrGone Vicissitude Infected Malkavian of the True Black Hand™

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