ALKY NOTES A page for remarks on the DIY kit.
Nice Praise from John DiCarlo
This is an invitation to
those of you who have not installed alcohol injection on your car. There are
no downsides to alcohol injection.......Only advantages. Make a lot more power
and protect your motor from detonation at the same time.
Installing a quality alky kit on your TR is very inexpensive. One of our
members, Steve Monroe, has a site that gives easy, complete, instructions on
how to make up and install what is commonly referred to as the DIY alchohol
injection system. I put mine together over three years ago. While you have to
get parts from different sources, it takes no more time to install than any
other kit. Cost me about $150 then, and I think I can duplicate it today for
$175. The DIY kit employs the use of the $60 Shurflo pump #2687. More pump
than you'll ever need. If you have any problems locating any of the parts, or
need some specific information on installation, just post here on the alky
forum for answers. Additionally to the instructions on the website below, I
have installed a warning light next to my boost gauge to let me know the pump
is spraying and an activation or test button so I can activate the system
manually. Also worth mentioning is, with the Sureflo pump, it's not necessary
to gum up your alky mixture with lubricant. It's not necessary. Spend more if
you want to. If you've read some posts here making you think installing or
using alky was complicated, it's not at all. Here's Steve Monroe's website....
http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html
Talk about reliability, I have more than 75,000 miles on my car since I
installed the DIY kit, and can truthfully say, it has never failed to come on.
Never had a pump failure. I have no knock in high gear at 24 psi running a
TE44 turbo. DIY alcohol injection not only gives you more power, cheaply, but
protects your engine from destructive detonation, which could destroy your
motor. I NEVER had any problem tuning it. Just figure your turn-on point,
usually between 10 and 15#s of boost, set it and forget it. There is no pump
speed to set. Pump is preset to 60 psi and I use a .032 jet and a one gallon
reservoir. End of story! However, if you like to experiment, the pump pressure
is adjustable to over 100 psi. I've read many posts about alky being hard to
tune, I really don't know what they're talking about. They must not have a
Steve Monroe DIY kit. This DIY kit can put your STOCK TR into the 12s. Get
busy!
Here's a post by RAZOR that you should read if you're thinking about
installing alcohol injection............
"Listen, an alcohol injection system is basically a pump, nozzle and
tank. The simpler it is kept the easier it is. If you have the ability to
install a car radio..you can do this.
No matter what route you take..they all lead to the same river..pump,nozzle,
and tank. The debates are how to control the pumps. Both the prefab kits like
the SMC, DIY, and stuff I do are all going in the same direction. They all
require wiring, drilling, mounting stuff. The experience and technical
assistance available on this board cannot be surpassed by any other web site.
If you do your reading and spend some time visiting sites and articles..you
will get a grasp on line 1
The complications happen when you break into the 11's for power.. Thats when
the power is really being made and requirements are higher.
Decide what you would like the car to do..then make a game plan how your going
to take care of that issue..thats what this forum is for. To give different
views on the same thing. I too had your feelings initially when I did mine 2
years ago..so i understand.
There are pro's and cons to every way you decide to go about doing this..they
usually revolve around $$$ and convenience
And just added..you can do this with your scanmaster..as your end result of
02's will vary with fueling. Your looking for zero knock and a happy motor.
Direct scan/turbolink are needed for extended diagnostics. like making
chips.."
__________________
John DiCarlo
rudykz@cs.com
Thanks to Vegastang for this post on The Corral Net (See thread: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread. php?s=&threadid=371147)
Originally posted by msnow (Snow Performance) Vegastang - You are correct on the combustion cooling of methanol. The octane ( effect on detonation threshold) of methanol is actually higher than the usual published 105. Since methanol chills intake air significantly, the CFR octane test on alcohols requires special test equipment to reheat intake air which nullifies methanol's charge-density advantages and produces octane ratings that are lower than those of alcohol running in a real situation where the cold intake charge would tend to lower peak combustion temps and reduce the propensity to knock. For this reason, methanol has been rated between 115-126 octane in real world situations. Ethanol is about 10 octane points lower. Your input on do-it yourself kits while meant to inform warrants the following: Do it your self kits are great for the engineering types amoung us and those that can afford to do it wrong and fix. The benefit of an engineered system like the Boost Cooler® is all the parts are designed to work together and you end-up with a tested/ robust system. Also, tuning knowlege/ help ads value to a system like the Boost Cooler®. Our 200psi pump is not a rebadged 60 psi with a regulator. It is a larger capacity 2 gal/min @ 200psi and will actually do 220psi. You won't buy this pump anywhere near $60. The correct way to do water/methanol injection is to inject a small qty at low boost and increase qty linearly as boost ( heat)increases which is accomplished with our variable controller. You simply will not get this improved driveability/power with a simple hobbs switch.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- reply from Vegastang.
Thats your opinion, my opinion is that if someone doesn't have the knowledge to put the few necessary parts together for such a basic alcohol system, they really have absolutly no business spraying methanol in the first place, as it is a completly different aspect of tuning and maintaining, both of which require direct knowledge, not a phonecall to someone who does.
Of course I'm speaking of your $300kit, which is a direct ripoff of the DIY turbobuick kit which is $150 in parts that are very easily attainable, you just have the foresight to charge an extra $150 to put them in a box together and mail it.
The end user still has to install the whole system the same way, so I really don't see what you've "engineered" except an easy way to make money. And nobody here needs anything close to a 200psi pump, which I've never seen in your site or ads, so I don't even know what you are talking about. I was speaking of your 100psi pump which is the same pump as the 60psi pump, just modded to flow a higher psi. And the *correct* way to inject methanol on a turbo car such as a mustang that sees full boost as early as 2500rpm, would be in line with the MAF transfer and fuel flow. Injecting it as a function of boost means that the same volume of methanol is being injected from full boost at 2500rpm to 6000rpm on a car such as mine, which is far from optimal. It needs to increase in line with air and fuel flow. Regardless your $300 kit does in fact use a hobbs switch, as do countless 10 and 11 second turbobuicks, so this is irrelevent. What you're doing is fine, but I feel that if you want to advertise it here in a DIY atmosphere, expect someone such as myself to point out the obvious. Vegastang
Posts like this one make a guy feel good
From the Turbo Ford Forum, 12-31-2003
posted by JLockhart
I just put together a simple alky /
water injection system for about $120. I did it based on the instructions on Steve
Monroe's site. As Greg has previously mentioned, the GN guys have an
excellent forum
for alky injection, and they are happy to answer questions from non-GN
owners.
Here is a link to a pic for my pump / reservoir installation: http://www.turboford.org/cgi-bin/album.pl?photo=00000111/000_0196.JPG;photo_height=500
I had been meaning to do this for a while, as I am still running the stock IC,
and that is probably the weakest part in my combo. Here’s what got my ass in
gear: On my recent trip to the track, the race gas guy was not there, so I had
to run pump gas. Still, I thought I could do decent as the car was running
pretty good on pump gas, and I had it tuned to the limit of detonation minus a
safety margin. First pass, top of 3rd gear, it starts rattling so I aborted.
Backed off the timing, upped the fuel pressure, then it makes it to 4rth before
doing the same thing. Next, I turn the boost down from 22 to 20 and made my 14.5
pass. I got really pissed off – why did it detonate at the track but not on
the street? I was running my IC fan that keeps the IC from becoming an
interheater. Outside temp was upper 50s.
Later, the little light bulb went on and I figured that the stock IC was using
thermal mass to cool the charge for the first part of the run, but could not
maintain that for the ¼ mile. On the street I typically do WOT from a roll and
for shorter bursts.
Anyway, I am in the process of tuning my alky / water setup, but the results so
far are amazing. I have the pump relay grounded to the overboost buzzer switch,
so it is kicking on at 17.5 psi. I’m running a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol
and water. I installed a McMaster-Carr mist nozzle into the IC near the outlet
to the TB. I first tried the spray @ 60psi without upping the boost or timing. I
thought that just the cooler air charge would work wonders. Frankly, I could not
feel a difference in performance (surprising). But then I started upping the
timing, boost, and alky pressure. WOW. So far I have not been able to get this
thing to ping. Boost is way off the gauge, I’d say it has to be around 25psi.
I’m running a ton of advance and that has really added to the kick in the
pants. It is really fun to feel the boost kick in 2nd and light up the rear
tires.
I have the alky pump turned up all the way (130 psi), and I still am still not
getting a bog, so I plan to go to a bigger jet. The typical procedure is that
you up the pressure till it bogs, then back it off. I’m not sure I need more
spray anyway.
I plan to add some safety features like a spray-on light, warning light for when
the alky gets low, and I am going to get a larger reservoir and install it in
front of the radiator (might as well get some use out of the 2-foot nose on the
bird). Also, as soon as I am done tuning, THE KNOCK SENSOR IS GETTING PLUGGED
IN. I would hate to think of what would happen if the system failed!
I wish I would have done this sooner; I can’t imagine getting better results
for the time and money spent.
Another vote for DIY
quote:I agree and that’s what I did. Here is the link to Steve Monroe’s Site. I followed his instructions for the most part. I used a McMaster-Carr spray nozzle instead of the NOS jet. Also I used the stock overboost buzzer switch to trigger the spray (17.5 psi). It’s awesome; I have the base timing at 10 degrees, and run 26psi on pump gas with no detonation whatsoever. It’s one of the best mods I have done for my car, it really lets me take full advantage of my turbo and fuel system upgrades.
Originally posted by srvblues00:
Why not just make your own? You can do it for $150 or less.. not all that difficult, either.
I might suggest turning the water on sooner. I noticed a 200-300 RPM earlier spool with earlier water on the Z. Origionally was comming on at 15psi but ended up dropping it to 7psi.quote:
Originally posted by JLockhart:
Also I used the stock overboost buzzer switch to trigger the spray (17.5 psi).